Old Blue Boys and Girls or Men and Women?

[jhopgood]

I think this is an interesting question, and well done Mid A 15 for raising it.

Second, as someone else has already said, housemistresses at Hertford were, for the most part, rather a bunch of misfits, some with no maternal feelings whatsoever. They were second class citizens (or lower) at the school themselves, which wasn't a good starting point. I always had the impression that Horsham houses (and correct me if I'm wrong) were generally managed by couples, often the man would be a teacher, plus his wife. Obviously that doesn't automatically suit them to be parental, but it strikes me as a more normal set-up on the face of it.

Third, Miss West and virtually all the senior teachers, as one might expect in those days, were career teachers who were unmarried and with no children of their own. I doubt the same was true of the senior masters at Horsham. So I don't think the importance of the pastoral side even occurred to DR and the Hertford staff.

I can only speak on CH Horsham, for the time that I was there, but bachelor Housemasters were the norm. I can think of few married Housemasters, Peto, Keely, Page and there were probably a few more, but out of 16, it was less than 60%. The female faces we saw regularly were Matron, one per 2 houses (A and B) and of course, the maids, and if you were feeling poorly, the nurses. Not a very "normal" set up.
Married teachers tended to have homes and children and had little to do with the running of a house. Until they started building the flats at the back in the early 1960´s, accommodation for housemasters was basically a study on the ground floor and a bedroom and bathroom upstairs, although I am only guessing at the latter as I never investigated.

I would also guess that all the Senior Masters were career teachers, as well as all of the Senior Housemasters. Some of the Junior Housemasters seemed to be doing what would now be termed as "gap years", although they were a minority.

Physical punishment was the norm, including the running punishments, but I cannot remember teachers/housemasters picking on pupils. Mind you, as I am perfectly capable of handing out verbal punishment a la "Gregory House", I probably wouldn´t have recognised it anyway.

[J.R.]

Just reading through this thread again, I suddenly remembered the punishment of 'Lines'

This always seemed to me to be the most pointless off punishments at CH.

Writing out 200 times something along the lines of....

"I must not........."

Is this ever used at Horsham these days, or did it die a natural death with the gym-shoe and the cane ?

[Barnes Mum]

I have not heard of a pupil being given 'lines' recently. Some of you might be amused to hear that there was a little group of pupils in the dining hall on Sunday who had obviously been given a 'drill', a punishment for poor behaviour that usually involves the children being given lovely jobs to do like cleaning, tidying, picking up litter etc. These children were being supervised cleaning off all the chewing gum from underneath the tables, I couldn't help but smile at the thought that they'd probably been the ones to put it there in the first place!

[J.R.]

chewing gum under the tables ??

How times change,

Anyone caught chewing gum in my day risked quite a severe punishment !

[Kim2s70-77]

I also remember being made to sew up every pocket in every garment I owned, after being caught once with my hands in my pockets. I could no more walk around with pocketed hands to this day, than I could walk around publically naked. ( Actually, I'd probably be more comfortable naked, but that's for another thread, I'm sure!)
Also - having to polish every pair of shoes in the House (about 37 pairs) after being seen with scuffed shoes. At least this kind of punishment was directly connected to the transgression and quite a deterrent! I am also aware of an ongoing discomfort with eating outside in public. I don't mean eating outside as in picnic, or al fresco table etc, but chewing while walking along etc. Correct me if I am wrong - but wasn't that sort of thing among the 'no-no's' ?? I am quite prepared to believe that one person once told me not to do it - and I extrapolated this to be a rigidly enforceable rule!! Does anyone remember the no elbows on the table issue? I realize this is just a good manners thing - but Amanda McIlwain in particular was the 'Elbows' Nazi and I cannot tell you the number of times my chin thunked onto the table as Amanda crept up behind and yanked the offending elbow prop out from under me, with an accompanying strident battle cry of "El-bows!!" {Much emphasis on the 2nd syllable)

[englishangel]

When I was a child no-one ate in the street so I think that one was a general 'sign of the times', like the elbows (all joints on the table will be carved) and no hands in pockets.

Nowadays chewing gum is almost mandatory as the sugarless type is very good for your teeth. Still no excuse for sticking it under the table though, or dropping it on the floor/pavement.

[J.R.]

When I was a child no-one ate in the street so I think that one was a general 'sign of the times', like the elbows (all joints on the table will be carved) and no hands in pockets.

Nowadays chewing gum is almost mandatory as the sugarless type is very good for your teeth. Still no excuse for sticking it under the table though, or dropping it on the floor/pavement.

Strangely, my dentist disagrees, Mary !!!

[englishangel]

He/she is in a 10% minority then

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A172342

[J.R.]

Quite possibly, Mary !

He's Indian, and as I DON'T chew gum, it's a bit immaterial.

[englishangel]

We were not allowed it at home when I was a child but my dad was a nurseryman and kept a supply of Wrigleys (the sugary stuff) at work so when we went to 'help' which we did frequently in the holidays it was a surreptitious treat, never to be mentioned to Mum.

However we were found out the day I pulled a long gummy thread out of my mouth and ran it round the back of my neck. I had to have about 2 inches of hair cut off to get it out. I NEVER did that again. I must havwe been about 9 and I can even remember where I did it at the nursery.

[englishangel]

Quite possibly, Mary !

He's Indian, and as I DON'T chew gum, it's a bit immaterial.

Just as a matter of interest how did it come up then?

[Barnes Mum]

Nowadays chewing gum is almost mandatory as the sugarless type is very good for your teeth. Still no excuse for sticking it under the table though, or dropping it on the floor/pavement.

I HATE chewing gum, one of my pet hates! Out of all my four children only one (the rebelious one!) ever chews it, I think I made such a thing about it that the others are scared their insides will explode or something if they were to ever touch it! The girls in my House here have also learnt that it's not a good idea to chew when Matron's around!

[J.R.]

Quite possibly, Mary !

He's Indian, and as I DON'T chew gum, it's a bit immaterial.

Just as a matter of interest how did it come up then?

We were discussing such products as Sensodyne toothpaste, and smokers tooth-powder. He then went on to talk about sugar free gum.

[gma]

I also remember being made to sew up every pocket in every garment I owned, after being caught once with my hands in my pockets. I could no more walk around with pocketed hands to this day, than I could walk around publically naked. ....................I realize this is just a good manners thing - but Amanda McIlwain in particular was the 'Elbows' Nazi and I cannot tell you the number of times my chin thunked onto the table as Amanda crept up behind and yanked the offending elbow prop out from under me, with an accompanying strident battle cry of "El-bows!!" {Much emphasis on the 2nd syllable)

The sewing up the pockets I remember particularly on my navy blazer!! It's one of the joys of my life now to have trouser pockets, jacket pockets, pockets in pockets, I'm a real katherine Hepburn with the pockets and the slouch (and the insouciant cigarettes till I gave them up!!) I just wish I had her shape!!

As for AM I always thought she was sooo soo cool ! I was trained by an elbow nazi with a fork at home so it wasn't too bad at school - but now if dining with friends we always end up with elbows and upper arma spread sideways across the table with hands propping our heads up while we java and chat! (and it still feels really really bad!)

[lonelymom]

The girls in my House here have also learnt that it's not a good idea to chew when Matron's around!

Do you scowl at us parents when we chew it too?