Ken Grimshaw

Share your memories and stories from your days at school, and find out the truth behind the rumours....Remember the teachers and pupils, tell us who you remember and why...

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dsm
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by dsm »

Just come across this thread. I remember Mr Grimshaw as a young man in the 70s. I was useless at manual work but managed to make a cross in metalwork and a lamp in woodwork which I still have. I notice that two of the teachers were a Mr Perry and Mr Wyncoll (Periwinkle).
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

Pe.A wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:55 am
TMF wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:40 am Hello Ken - Are you in touch with Ernie McCall by any chance?
why....were you hoping to say hello...??
Yes.

However, McCall's whereabouts seem uncertain - but Ken and McCall were acquainted with one another at CH and both went to Thailand at some point - McCall left CH suddenly after 'after being caught trying to lure a boy up to his flat': https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 74#p143274

....whereas Ken 'was in danger of becoming disillusioned' ... 'after 19 largely very enjoyable years' and similarly departed East.

Of course, Ken was a 'corporal punishment' enthusiast, as noted on this thread, and here: 'I can clearly recall Ken Grimshaw showing a bunch of us squits in Maine B his punishment log, in 1990 or 91.': https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 29#p142729 (the log was no doubt carefully archived by CH management).

I would be interested in knowing Ken's views on the relationship between corporal punishment and the sexual abuse of children - which has been written about by e.g. Joy Schaverien.

At some point, Golfer noted some kind of relationship or animosity between Ken and McCall: 'I had to smile when I heard that at an Old Blues' Golf meeting that ERM had teamed up with Ken Grimshaw in setting up a school in the Far East. It might be true but you could knock me down with a feather if it was....': https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 35#p143335
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:15 pm
Pe.A wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:55 am
TMF wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:40 am Hello Ken - Are you in touch with Ernie McCall by any chance?
why....were you hoping to say hello...??
Yes.

However, McCall's whereabouts seem uncertain - but Ken and McCall were acquainted with one another at CH and both went to Thailand at some point - McCall left CH suddenly after 'after being caught trying to lure a boy up to his flat': https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 74#p143274

....whereas Ken 'was in danger of becoming disillusioned' ... 'after 19 largely very enjoyable years' and similarly departed East.

Of course, Ken was a 'corporal punishment' enthusiast, as noted on this thread, and here: 'I can clearly recall Ken Grimshaw showing a bunch of us squits in Maine B his punishment log, in 1990 or 91.': https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 29#p142729 (the log was no doubt carefully archived by CH management).

I would be interested in knowing Ken's views on the relationship between corporal punishment and the sexual abuse of children - which has been written about by e.g. Joy Schaverien.

At some point, Golfer noted some kind of relationship or animosity between Ken and McCall: 'I had to smile when I heard that at an Old Blues' Golf meeting that ERM had teamed up with Ken Grimshaw in setting up a school in the Far East. It might be true but you could knock me down with a feather if it was....': https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 35#p143335
So what's your point?

Has anyone come forward to make a criminal complaint against McCall? I can remember the 'boy' in question, and he was on his Grecians at the time.
I wouldn't necessarily take an isolated comment from a random person (who didn't actually have some of his facts straight btw) on this forum and take it as gospel.

It sounds like you're fishing for something with a very long rod...
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

So what's your point, Pe.dophile A.pologist? (Aside from some kind of a dread concerning information on the topic of abuse?)

Here are some strings from your previous messages with which to construct an attempt to disrupt the thread: "by the bye" "wept" "the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent" "what's your point" "piss poor understanding" - please feel free to use these strings liberally, I will not be offended.

Just don't mention McCall or the corporal punishment log maintained by Ken - whatever you do - or perhaps let Ken respond himself.
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:08 pm So what's your point, Pe.dophile A.pologist? (Aside from some kind of a dread concerning information on the topic of abuse?)

Here are some strings from your previous messages with which to construct an attempt to disrupt the thread: "by the bye" "wept" "the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent" "what's your point" "piss poor understanding" - please feel free to use these strings liberally, I will not be offended.

Just don't mention McCall or the corporal punishment log maintained by Ken - whatever you do - or perhaps let Ken respond himself.
My point is to stick to the facts as we know them - nothing more, nothing less.

You and others seem to be more concerned about reaching out for dots to link up and making up scenarios in your head.
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

My point is to stick to the facts as we know them - nothing more, nothing less.
You and others seem to be more concerned about reaching out for dots to link up and making up scenarios in your head.
Pe.dophile A.pologist, is asking questions is verboten? You ask many. FYI - here is a fact, as we know it:

If you put 'International School Shrewsbury child abuse' into a search engine

You find...(the 4th hit on the search engine I used)

https://aseannow.com/topic/390536-ameri ... -thailand/
Michael Bond extradited, now in Louisville
Posted: Aug 13, 2010
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB Fox 41) -- A former YMCA counselor who was indicted for sexually abusing four boys at a summer camp 20 years ago has been extradited to Louisville.
43-year-old Michael Bond had fled to Thailand, but sources with the Commonwealth Attorney's Office confirmed that he returned to the states early last month and turned himself in to Atlanta Police last month.
He was a teacher at Shrewsbury International, teaching the same age group as he is accused of abusing ! He openly consorted with his younger boyfriend, but the school took no notice. Now it is out in the open, the headmaster has been very supportive of him, especially in a number of blogs in the US - see http://www.whas11.com/news/Alleged-chil ... 03644.html (I wonder why...).
So, some in the 1990s, on occasion, turned their interest in 'matters educational' into extended tenures at this school in Bangkok, while avoiding trouble back home.

Let's see what Ken says.
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:16 pm
My point is to stick to the facts as we know them - nothing more, nothing less.
You and others seem to be more concerned about reaching out for dots to link up and making up scenarios in your head.
Pe.dophile A.pologist, is asking questions is verboten? You ask many. FYI - here is a fact, as we know it:

If you put 'International School Shrewsbury child abuse' into a search engine

You find...(the 4th hit on the search engine I used)

https://aseannow.com/topic/390536-ameri ... -thailand/
Michael Bond extradited, now in Louisville
Posted: Aug 13, 2010
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB Fox 41) -- A former YMCA counselor who was indicted for sexually abusing four boys at a summer camp 20 years ago has been extradited to Louisville.
43-year-old Michael Bond had fled to Thailand, but sources with the Commonwealth Attorney's Office confirmed that he returned to the states early last month and turned himself in to Atlanta Police last month.
He was a teacher at Shrewsbury International, teaching the same age group as he is accused of abusing ! He openly consorted with his younger boyfriend, but the school took no notice. Now it is out in the open, the headmaster has been very supportive of him, especially in a number of blogs in the US - see http://www.whas11.com/news/Alleged-chil ... 03644.html (I wonder why...).
So, some in the 1990s, on occasion, turned their interest in 'matters educational' into extended tenures at this school in Bangkok, while avoiding trouble back home.

Let's see what Ken says.
First of all, I think you should stop with the paedophile apologist shtick - I can't see what I have said that would justify that, so technically that's slanderous - I think you resorting to that says more about you than it does about me. It's just childish.

Secondly, with regards to McCall, I am wary of conflating homosexuality with paedophilia. As I said, no criminal charges were brought then by the pupil (who most probably was over 18) or since - so it's hard to come up with a definitive judgment.

And lastly, with regards to your latest post, what are you trying to prove?
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

I think you should stop with the paedophile apologist shtick
https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627
Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar. People have always fancied, and will always fancy 14/15 year old girls. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's the law of the land that counts. Before I get mobbed for that statement, if one checks the ages of consent across Europe they range from between 14-18 - and in a country like Spain, the age of consent up until 1999 was 13. It is what it is - make of that what you will.
https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 1&#p142941
However, I distinctly remember you called a house meeting I am guesssing like in 1993, and you explained to us that our Maths teacher Mr *****, was being marched off the because he had tried to lure a boy up into his flat. I was in the unnamed teachers set for maths (set 6 or 5 I believe) so I remember it well. He used to disappear for most of the lesson, he kind of stank, and seemed drunk or hungover a lot. Do you remember that incident? It struck me as a bit unusual because in other incidents I remember that nothing was really said about it by the teachers, and it was decribed as an "elopement" e.g Husband and I think if I remember rightly the 2nd band master. In this case it was different, you told us the truth which was nice.
https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 83#p145783
Yes, I was invited up to Richard McCall's flat along with others for saturday night - post "club" drinking sessions. The members of these sessions were not just from Maine A, I have photographs showing School monitors from other houses as well. I wasn't a particularly cool or good looking kid, I was vice house captain and I always thought that was why I was invited. However - most of the other kids there were cool, good looking and in positions of responsibility in the school. I was probably the MIdwich Cuckoo.

Yes, these sessions were "proper" booze. No cans of warm Carling here, Scotch and red wine was freely available. You didn't ask to refill, you just went to the drinks table and helped yourself.

Yes, in hindsight these were grooming sessions - see below.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/ ... rep-school
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:20 pm
I think you should stop with the paedophile apologist shtick
https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627
Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar. People have always fancied, and will always fancy 14/15 year old girls. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's the law of the land that counts. Before I get mobbed for that statement, if one checks the ages of consent across Europe they range from between 14-18 - and in a country like Spain, the age of consent up until 1999 was 13. It is what it is - make of that what you will.
https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 1&#p142941
However, I distinctly remember you called a house meeting I am guesssing like in 1993, and you explained to us that our Maths teacher Mr *****, was being marched off the because he had tried to lure a boy up into his flat. I was in the unnamed teachers set for maths (set 6 or 5 I believe) so I remember it well. He used to disappear for most of the lesson, he kind of stank, and seemed drunk or hungover a lot. Do you remember that incident? It struck me as a bit unusual because in other incidents I remember that nothing was really said about it by the teachers, and it was decribed as an "elopement" e.g Husband and I think if I remember rightly the 2nd band master. In this case it was different, you told us the truth which was nice.
https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 83#p145783
Yes, I was invited up to Richard McCall's flat along with others for saturday night - post "club" drinking sessions. The members of these sessions were not just from Maine A, I have photographs showing School monitors from other houses as well. I wasn't a particularly cool or good looking kid, I was vice house captain and I always thought that was why I was invited. However - most of the other kids there were cool, good looking and in positions of responsibility in the school. I was probably the MIdwich Cuckoo.

Yes, these sessions were "proper" booze. No cans of warm Carling here, Scotch and red wine was freely available. You didn't ask to refill, you just went to the drinks table and helped yourself.

Yes, in hindsight these were grooming sessions - see below.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/ ... rep-school
My comment about the ages of consent came with context. As I have already written, you need to read the subsequent paragraph of the post your quote came from, and try to understand what I was trying to say rather than put a slant on the meaning I was trying to convey. I have already made this point.

As I said, no criminal charges were brought then by the pupil against McCall (who most probably was over 18) or since - so it's hard to come up with a definitive judgment. That is all anyone can really say. Inappropriate behaviour is different to outright criminality.

I note that you haven't attempted to answer the question I put to you about your previous post.
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

On Pe.A's pedophile perspective: Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent
My comment about the ages of consent came with context. As I have already written, you need to read the subsequent paragraph of the post your quote came from, and try to understand what I was trying to say rather than put a slant on the meaning I was trying to convey. I have already made this point.
This context was a three paragraph post by Pe.A. quoted and linked below. As far as I can see, the 'subsequent paragraph' (in bold below) tries to say that Pe.dophiles do not need much guidance, because guidance is widely available thanks to the media and Jimmy Savile. So guidance is not needed, but guidance is available outside the CH context. Despite contradicting itself, the paragraph does attempt to remove CH from a potential role in providing an influence on pedophiles. The paragraph concludes by saying that mentioning grooming at CH, does not add anything useful. Clearly the author is not interested in the possibility of learning from the past. The paragraph does not modify Pe.A's assertion: 'Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent', as far as I can see.

But please feel free to help me [try to] understand. Perhaps there is more context to evaluate. Perhaps Ken or McCall can help explain the outcome of their teaching, guidance, or influence.

Pe.A in context:

https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627
For me, it was the assumptions that I took issue with. We have to proceed with what we do actually know, and there are a lot of mays and might haves in your comments, as well as blanket statements like "That is what paedos do" which I don't think actually add anything useful.

Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar. People have always fancied, and will always fancy 14/15 year old girls. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's the law of the land that counts. Before I get mobbed for that statement, if one checks the ages of consent across Europe they range from between 14-18 - and in a country like Spain, the age of consent up until 1999 was 13. It is what it is - make of that what you will.

My point with that is that someone would not really need much guidance or influence. I'm sure there would have been plenty of similar cases he could have read about in the media since he was at CH, certainly post-Jimmy Savile. Some people abuse their power and their position of trust, give in to temptation, break the law and get found out. Trying to connect disparate dots through time and space back to CH just does not add anything useful.
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:25 pm On Pe.A's pedophile perspective: Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent
My comment about the ages of consent came with context. As I have already written, you need to read the subsequent paragraph of the post your quote came from, and try to understand what I was trying to say rather than put a slant on the meaning I was trying to convey. I have already made this point.
This context was a three paragraph post by Pe.A. quoted and linked below. As far as I can see, the 'subsequent paragraph' (in bold below) tries to say that Pe.dophiles do not need much guidance, because guidance is widely available thanks to the media and Jimmy Savile. So guidance is not needed, but guidance is available outside the CH context. Despite contradicting itself, the paragraph does attempt to remove CH from a potential role in providing an influence on pedophiles. The paragraph concludes by saying that mentioning grooming at CH, does not add anything useful. Clearly the author is not interested in the possibility of learning from the past. The paragraph does not modify Pe.A's assertion: 'Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent', as far as I can see.

But please feel free to help me [try to] understand. Perhaps there is more context to evaluate. Perhaps Ken or McCall can help explain the outcome of their teaching, guidance, or influence.

Pe.A in context:

https://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic. ... 27#p149627
For me, it was the assumptions that I took issue with. We have to proceed with what we do actually know, and there are a lot of mays and might haves in your comments, as well as blanket statements like "That is what paedos do" which I don't think actually add anything useful.

Let's be clear, the only difference between grooming and seduction is the age of consent - I'm sure the techniques are remarkably similar. People have always fancied, and will always fancy 14/15 year old girls. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's the law of the land that counts. Before I get mobbed for that statement, if one checks the ages of consent across Europe they range from between 14-18 - and in a country like Spain, the age of consent up until 1999 was 13. It is what it is - make of that what you will.

My point with that is that someone would not really need much guidance or influence. I'm sure there would have been plenty of similar cases he could have read about in the media since he was at CH, certainly post-Jimmy Savile. Some people abuse their power and their position of trust, give in to temptation, break the law and get found out. Trying to connect disparate dots through time and space back to CH just does not add anything useful.
It's quite simple, really.

Just because there is a certain degree of convergence in the overall circumstances, i.e. people liking teenage girls, being in the teaching profession and targeting impressionable underage ones, it should not automatically be inferred that that one influenced the other. It should not be hard to understand this. Just because he would have known about certain individuals 25 years ago, it should not be inferred that he would have been influenced or inspired or actively coached by them to act like a ****. There would have been countless cases where this has happened in the intervening years that he could have read about/taken inspiration from/gleaned tactics from etc etc.

As i said in another post, i used to work somewhere where one of the security guys (late 20s) used to have a reputation with sleeping with 16/17 year old shop assistants. If he had crossed the line and slept with an underage one, do you think the techniques used in getting them into bed would have been markedly different? There is virtually no difference between a 15 year old and a 17 year old. The only difference between grooming one and seducing the other is the age of consent. That was my point. It should not be hard to understand this - i don't understand what the problems are with you not getting it. I thought a good education was meant to give you critical thinking capabilities.

Please tell me you get it - because I am slowly starting to lose the will to live. This has worn me out.
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

I thought a good education was meant to give you critical thinking capabilities.
So, you now think that experience or education influences people. But experience does not influence people when it is experience of pedophiles at CH. Is that your position?
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:12 pm
I thought a good education was meant to give you critical thinking capabilities.
So, you now think that experience or education influences people. But experience does not influence people when it is experience of pedophiles at CH. Is that your position?
What...?
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by TMF »

It is subtle...

On the one hand, a 'good education' should give someone 'critical thinking capabilities' in your view.

....whereas the rich experiences of CH and its world of corporal punishment, convicted and moved-on pedophiles, and management facilitation, has no influence on anyone.

Which is a contradiction.

But perhaps you are a student of Wittgenstein? (A person also possessed of rather progressive attitudes for his time).
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Re: Ken Grimshaw

Post by Pe.A »

TMF wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:16 pm It is subtle...

On the one hand, a 'good education' should give someone 'critical thinking capabilities' in your view.

....whereas the rich experiences of CH and its world of corporal punishment, convicted and moved-on pedophiles, and management facilitation, has no influence on anyone.

Which is a contradiction.

But perhaps you are a student of Wittgenstein? (A person also possessed of rather progressive attitudes for his time).
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOREING...!!!!!
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