Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

Pardon my ignorance, but bearing in mind that CH was founded by the ultra-Protestant King Edward VI, it was presumably staffed by similarly Protestant persons and overseen by other extremely-Protestant dignitaries.

So what happened when Queen Blooody Mary I came to the throne? Were all the staff replaced by suitably Popish johnnies? And was anyone connected with CH burned at the stake? Or did all the staff and governors simply act Catholic for 5 years 121 days, then go back to being Protestant again? If the whole crew were replaced with Catholics for the duration, what became of them on Elizabeth I's accession?

Like I said, I'm ignorant, me.

This is a fascinating subject -------it would be very interesting to check, provided any records still exist !

The little Church at Winterbourne Gunner, near Salisbury, where my Elder Son was married, has a list of all the Vicars, on a notice in the porch.

Some of the names have the subscript "Appointed" ---- indicating that the previous Incumbent had held different views to the --- then---Church Authority.
It is interesting to note, that this happened more than once -----Henry -- Edward --- Mary--- Elizabeth

Dangerous times --- but remember the "Vicar of Bray" who survived, by being clever !!

An interesting topic.

Not much to be found regarding Queen Mary in Christ's Hospital G.A.T. Allan Revised by J.E. Morpurgo other than this (p46).

....."Christ's Hospital being a Royal Foundation, it is fitting that it should be proud of its continuous connexion with royalty and that grateful acknowledgement should be made for the interest which the Royal Family has taken in us from our beginnings. The greatest of our privileges is our prescriptive right to present a Loyal Address to the Sovereign on the occasion of his state visit to the City after his Accession and we have never again been rebuffed as we were on that notorious day when Queen Mary 1, as Howes relates ...... the citizens being

'in good hope that she would put to her helping hand and give good countenace to the good work of the Hospital .....it came otherwise to pass, for at such time as she came out of Norfolk and was to be received into London, the Governors set up a stage without Aldgate, and placed themselves and the children upon the stage. And prepared a child of the free school to make an oration to her, but when she came near unto them she cast her eye another way and never stayed nor gave any countenance to them.' ".........

I have a vague memory of reading somewhere about riots in Newgate Street when the crowds attacked CH thinking that it was a Roman Catholic establishment - (maybe because housey coats bear a remarkable similarity to cassocks?). I am sure there will be someone out there in forumland who can fill in the details?

Fjgrogan wrote: I am sure there will be someone out there in forumland who can fill in the details?

I hope so, I'd never given it much thought before but now I'm intrigued.

It is recorded that "she did not lyke of the blewe boyes", and snubbed the future Catholic martyr Edmund Campion as he was about to deliver an oration. See The Christ's Hospital Book, p. 8.

This episode was incorporated into David Jesson-Dibley's Pageant performed at the fund-raising Festival in 1963.

michael scuffil wrote:It is recorded that "she did not lyke of the blewe boyes", and snubbed the future Catholic martyr Edmund Campion as he was about to deliver an oration. See The Christ's Hospital Book, p. 8.

This episode was incorporated into David Jesson-Dibley's Pageant performed at the fund-raising Festival in 1963.

Was that the massive pageant performed in the Science quad, Michael ?

J.R. wrote:

michael scuffil wrote:It is recorded that "she did not lyke of the blewe boyes", and snubbed the future Catholic martyr Edmund Campion as he was about to deliver an oration. See The Christ's Hospital Book, p. 8.

This episode was incorporated into David Jesson-Dibley's Pageant performed at the fund-raising Festival in 1963.

Was that the massive pageant performed in the Science quad, Michael ?

Yes indeed. I was the Duke of Cambridge (protesting against the move to Horsham), and I liked my sidewhiskers so much, that I've never been without them since.

michael scuffil wrote:

J.R. wrote:

michael scuffil wrote:It is recorded that "she did not lyke of the blewe boyes", and snubbed the future Catholic martyr Edmund Campion as he was about to deliver an oration. See The Christ's Hospital Book, p. 8.

This episode was incorporated into David Jesson-Dibley's Pageant performed at the fund-raising Festival in 1963.

Was that the massive pageant performed in the Science quad, Michael ?

Yes indeed. I was the Duke of Cambridge (protesting against the move to Horsham), and I liked my sidewhiskers so much, that I've never been without them since.

I can't remember exactly who or what I was. All I remember is wearing some sort of red cloak and a red skull-cap !!

J.R. wrote:
I can't remember exactly who or what I was. All I remember is wearing some sort of red cloak and a red skull-cap !!

According to the programme, you and someone called M. Butler were aldermen of the City of London at the time of the Foundation. Blooody Mary was played by C.J. Lintott (to whom I can't put a face).

michael scuffil wrote:

J.R. wrote:
I can't remember exactly who or what I was. All I remember is wearing some sort of red cloak and a red skull-cap !!

According to the programme, you and someone called M. Butler were aldermen of the City of London at the time of the Foundation. bl**dy Mary was played by C.J. Lintott (to whom I can't put a face).

Just realised that I appeared (unnamed) on page 44 as part of the Band, "playing resounding discords", which is about what I play now.

michael scuffil wrote:

J.R. wrote:
I can't remember exactly who or what I was. All I remember is wearing some sort of red cloak and a red skull-cap !!

According to the programme, you and someone called M. Butler were aldermen of the City of London at the time of the Foundation. Blooody Mary was played by C.J. Lintott (to whom I can't put a face).

Thanks for that, Michael.

M Butler. There's a name that has suddenly conjoured up a face from the past !

michael scuffil wrote:

J.R. wrote:
I can't remember exactly who or what I was. All I remember is wearing some sort of red cloak and a red skull-cap !!

According to the programme, you and someone called M. Butler were aldermen of the City of London at the time of the Foundation. bl**dy Mary was played by C.J. Lintott (to whom I can't put a face).

Do you have the programme for which, according to my booklet, Mr C H Read was responsible, or the booklet with the full text, printed by Southgate Printing?
Or are they one and the same?

The full account in The Christ's Hospital Book (1953) runs as follows:

The children who accompanied the Corporation to the King's palace to receive the Royal Charter rejoiced in their new lot and their new clothes. Soon their rejoicing was turned to fear. In August, 1553, they assembled at Aldgate to greet Queen Mary on her entry to the City. Edmund Campion [reputedly a pupil at CH at this date], 'that second Cicero', stood forth in his blue gown to deliver his oration. But the Queen turned away. 'Shee did not lyke of the blewe boys, but yf they had bene so many Greyefryers shee woulde have gyven them better countenance.'

A Commission was set up to inquire into Christ's Hospital, and there was a real danger that the school would be disbanded and the buildings handed back to the Greyfriars. But the Governors of Christ's Hospital proved themselves then, as often afterwards, to be astute politicians, and they granted leases of houses to influential men - leases which would have been revoked if the properties were returned to the friars. More powerful than politics was the appeal to the heart:

'ffryer Peto and ffryer Perin [presumably members of the Commission] did theire good wills to have subverted all, but ffryer John, a Spanyarde, who came in companie to see the manner and was brought by the rest of the Commissioners to have his opinion, whoe, being there at dinnertyme and seeing the poore children sett at the table and seing them served in with meate, he was so wrapped in admyracon that sodaynly he burst oute in to teares and saide in Lattin to the company that he had rather be a Scullion in theire kytchin then stewarde to the kinge.'

Howes adds as a pious footnote: 'God wroughte a speciall myracle in that good ffryer for yt is wrytten of him that after his retourne into Spaine, he was executed for relligion.' Friar John was certainly a benefactor of the Hospital, for he overrode his colleagues Peto and Perin and he probably carried some influence with Mary's husband, Philip of Spain. If he was indeed put to death, it was an ironic parallel to the fact that Edmund Campion, the Bluecoat scholar whom Mary snubbed, died a Catholic martyr.

Christ's Hospital survived its Marian persecution.

Most of these quotations seem to be taken from John Howes's manuscript, written in 1582 but not published until 1904. Howes was secretary to the first Treasurer of CH, and became the Foundation's rent collector.

jhopgood wrote:

michael scuffil wrote:

J.R. wrote:
I can't remember exactly who or what I was. All I remember is wearing some sort of red cloak and a red skull-cap !!

According to the programme, you and someone called M. Butler were aldermen of the City of London at the time of the Foundation. bl**dy Mary was played by C.J. Lintott (to whom I can't put a face).

Do you have the programme for which, according to my booklet, Mr C H Read was responsible, or the booklet with the full text, printed by Southgate Printing?
Or are they one and the same?

I have the booklet with the full text, a few b/w photos, and sketches by the art master Mr Lane, printed (not very well) by Southgate Printing. No one called C.H.Read is mentioned in it.