Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

Just in case anyone is in a helpful mood...
My final year Research Project is edging more towards Evolutionary Psychology than Zoology, but hey-ho.

I'm testing to see whether there is any relationship between the intensity of human grief, and the Reproductive Value of the deceased - sounds morbid, I know, but it is in fact fascinating. (I promise).

In zoological terms, Reproductive Value is based on an individual's production of offspring. So, if you have a thousand kids, you have a higher value than someone with only one. Making sense? And if your children have children, then your value is, again, higher. But, there's a differential between men and women, and an individual's age - men have the potential to reproduce at an earlier age than women, and continue until they die, whereas women start reproducing later, and after the menopause have a RV of 0.

This is all very clinical, and so I'm trying to find a correlation between RV and the intensity of a human emotion. For example, would you feel more grief at the loss of a child, ("who had their whole (reproductive) life ahead of them") or a parent (who was past reproductive age)?

The last study on this topic was in 1983, and the guys used hypothetical questions in a questionairre, which I really don't agree with. My data is from obituary notices, and I'm going by the number of words, the number of adjectives, and then ranking the adjectives (which is the difficult bit) and putting this against the person's age. Not hugely qualitative, but there's no way you can be with human emotion, amd much more emotionally draining than I ever thought it would be.

Comment?

WOW! Sounds fascinating Emma! I can think of all sorts of reasons why one's RV might collapse or even intensify ........ but i cannot mention them here.

DavebytheSea wrote:WOW! Sounds fascinating Emma! I can think of all sorts of reasons why one's RV might collapse ........

Is this when the jiggery isn't always followed by the pokery?

(Sorry, E.J., I'm sure the sensible responses will be along shortly!).

My wife and I have no kids, and have no plans to reproduce, so I assume we both have a Reproductive Value of 0.

Presumably, then, if either of us were to die it would be impossible for anyone to grieve for us.

How would this system work,for example, in the case of a gay man dying in his 20s.? I suppose his RV would be pretty low on account of his homosexuality, whereas it would normally be high on account of his age.

Confusing, eh?

Richard Ruck wrote:Is this when the jiggery isn't always followed by the pokery?

Indeed...

Richard Ruck wrote:Presumably, then, if either of us were to die it would be impossible for anyone to grieve for us.

I might, if no one else will, Richard

Richard Ruck wrote:My wife and I have no kids, and have no plans to reproduce, so I assume we both have a Reproductive Value of 0.

Presumably, then, if either of us were to die it would be impossible for anyone to grieve for us.

How would this system work,for example, in the case of a gay man dying in his 20s.? I suppose his RV would be pretty low on account of his homosexuality, whereas it would normally be high on account of his age.

Confusing, eh?

Right well, regardless of your choice, you both still have the potential to have kids, and, thus, still have a RV. The same with a gay 20yo. He could still potentially reproduce. You see?

So, it's to do with potential, not results achieved! I see......

DavebytheSea wrote:

Richard Ruck wrote:Presumably, then, if either of us were to die it would be impossible for anyone to grieve for us.

I might, if no one else will, Richard

Aaaah, thank-you, Dave!

Richard Ruck wrote:So, it's to do with potential, not results achieved! I see......

Well, results play a part. For example, a 90yo woman who dies having had 5 kids, and the grand and great-grand children will have a higher value than someone of the same age who has had less children, etc.

How about this, then:

Death at a young age - unnatural, so has added 'grievability'.

Death at an advanced age - natural, so has normal 'grievability'.

Anywhere in between on a sliding scale, I suppose.

Simple, innit?

Does cause of death get considered?

Richard Ruck wrote:Does cause of death get considered?

In a way - most obituary notices don't tell you cause of death, so I'm using the adjectives (peacefully, suddenly, tragically, etc)

Emma Jane wrote:I'm trying to find a correlation between RV and the intensity of a human emotion.

Speaking from personal experience rather than from any scientific research statistics, I would say that heightened human emotion often plays a significant part in the mechanics of human reproduction. But then I only did one year's biology with Kirby and that was it, so I never really got the hang of these things at all.

Emma Jane wrote:

Richard Ruck wrote:Does cause of death get considered?

In a way - most obituary notices don't tell you cause of death, so I'm using the adjectives (peacefully, suddenly, tragically, etc)

what if you get " finally "?

Emma, I had written a fairly lengthy and (for me) sensible reply, but as I was about to post it my dog hit my PC's off button with his nose, so it was all lost.

I know this sounds a bit like "my housemaster's cat was sick on my essay during break, honestly", but it's the truth.

I have to get ready to go to London for the Bluecoat Concert now, but Ill attempt a sensible post tomorrow.