Unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum

maybe one that does base jumping without a parachute hoping to be saved ???

DavebytheSea wrote:What is an "extreme Christian?"

I suppose its the extreme opposite of a fundamentalist Muslim, Dave ?

WOW ! This is getting very theological !

Come on, JR! Fundamentalism and extremism are hardly the same!

I understand what a fundamental Christian is (one who holds a very literal view of biblical scripture), and I can also have some idea of a fundamentalist Muslim. But to be extreme .... now that is surely something different.

Are their stages of Christian belief? I.e. can one be "just a little bit" Christian? .. or perhaps "fairly" Christian? or "quite a lot" Christian? or, indeed, "extremely" Christian. I think not! One is either a Christian or one is not. As for being "Roman Catholic", or "Methodist", "evangelical" or even "fundamentalist" - well these are different varieties of the Christian faith, whereas the word "extremely" pertains to degree. In matters of faith, surely, one either has it or one does not have it.

J.R. wrote:I can give you examples here in Surrey, of workers being bussed in from North London, unable to even speak English who's employers have under-cut building firms already working on jobs. It's happened to our son in law twice, who is a time served plasterer, and a damn good one ! He's had his job pulled from under his feet twice in the last nine month by these Poles, so don't tell me they are flooding here to do the jobs the English won't do. Twice, our Grand-Children have suffered at the hands of these so called asylum seekers so please allow me my hate and disdain!

Surely the fault lies with the employers, not with the workers who are desperate to get work by whatever means and for whatever money?

DavebytheSea wrote:Are their stages of Christian belief?

Actually I'd say there are, ranging from someone who just happens to believe in (the Christian) God, right up to a fundamentalist, and everyone in between.

Extremism and fundamentalism are different, I suppose, but go hand in hand. Religious extremists are presumably usually fundamentalists, aren't they?

DavebytheSea wrote:What is an "extreme Christian?"

I think an extreme Christian, Muslim, Jew or whoever would have to be someone who not only takes a literal view of their scriptures (which would, of course define them as a fundamentalist) but also takes an absolutist view of their particular religion's rightness. To have such faith in something that cannot be proved to the extent that everyone else must be wrong would, I should have thought, define anyone holding such views as extreme. I should like to know, however, how a fundamentalist reconciles the contradiction that scriptures, for example, the Christian bible frequently throws up. The gospels are hardly consistent in their reporting of the life of Jesus of Nazareth and are, after all, only four of the various accounts so written.

It always makes me laugh (well it would if it were funny) that the 10 Commandments say "thou shalt not kill" and they are in the Bible of the Christians, the Jews, and I think the Koran as well, though I am no expert.

DavebytheSea wrote:

huntertitus wrote:It's a hell of a lot better than being dead!

Well I'm not sure. Being trained in the CH chapel choir and somewhat of a musical bent, I quite fancy the thought of harping 9-5.

Having had Daddy Dor's baseball bat to all parts of my anatomy (and still suffering) for not knowing what being tone deaf is the idea of any music 9 to 9.01 terrifies. Is that what they call hell?

loringa wrote:

DavebytheSea wrote:What is an "extreme Christian?"

I think an extreme Christian, Muslim, Jew or whoever would have to be someone who not only takes a literal view of their scriptures (which would, of course define them as a fundamentalist) but also takes an absolutist view of their particular religion's rightness. To have such faith in something that cannot be proved to the extent that everyone else must be wrong would, I should have thought, define anyone holding such views as extreme. I should like to know, however, how a fundamentalist reconciles the contradiction that scriptures, for example, the Christian bible frequently throws up. The gospels are hardly consistent in their reporting of the life of Jesus of Nazareth and are, after all, only four of the various accounts so written.

Interesting view in this neck of the woods. The Pope employed a geezer caller Simon de Montfort (anyone from Nottingham recognise the name?) to sort out local Christians who attempted to live according to the 4 gospels and Acts of the Apostles. Murderous so-and-so 'e was:
heard that Lavalenet was not cooperating so he took 200 prisoners, removed their tongues, ears and eyes (except for one who kept one eye so he could guide the rest round the town.) Surrender was prompt.

Seige of Beziers - his pet bishop was asked how to distinguish the estimated 200 Cathars from the other 10,000; the answer was "Kill them all; God will know his own".

and I could go on ..............and on...
Seems he did not know the 10 commandments and neither did the pope and bishops.

Being a Christian means believing in Christ, whereas living by Christian values has a much broader meaning.

I was confirmed, (at CH), but tend to have more Pagan views nowadays, only attending Church for the obligatory Matches, Hatches and Dispatches

I find it very hard to follow any set religion when most of the wars and destruction of our Mother Earth are carried out in the name of religion !

englishangel wrote:It always makes me laugh (well it would if it were funny) that the 10 Commandments say "thou shalt not kill" and they are in the Bible of the Christians, the Jews, and I think the Koran as well, though I am no expert.

Let me inject a little conjecture into proceedings. There are some who maintain that the commandment is, in fact, "Thou shalt not do thy murder". This little change from kill to murder changes things somewhat. Obviously murder is a more subjective term and is open to (mis)interpretation. Perhaps it was changed by the powers that be to justify capital punishment...?

An essay in 500 words by tea-time please!

englishangel wrote:they are in the Bible of the Christians, the Jews, and I think the Koran as well

Indeed, this is true. In fact the Koran contains a great deal of information in common with the Christian bible in particular. This is likely due to the fact that both Christianity and Islam began as small cults or sects within Judaism. The Christian bible is simply the Jewish Torah (Old testament) with a selection of stories appended (the new testament). These source of these stories were the various sects in existence around 350 AD, when the council of Nicea was convened to 'iron out' the 'facts' regarding the life of Christ so that Christianity could be incorporated into the Roman empire, and a set of official readings could be available to those who wished to learn about their new reigion. There were a lot of stories floating around at the time; some recounted parts of the life of Jesus of Nazareth, including his youth, some were clarificiations of parts of the old testament ("the life of adam and eve", "the jubillees" etc) and some were merely popular writings of the time (Revelation being the most obvious and interesting example). The writings selected for the Christian book were chosen on the basis that they did not deny the divinity of Christ and that they did not raise conflicts within the texts (although many persist), nor inappropriate messages about God or Jesus For example, after Cane kills Abel, he goes off and marries and produces children, but with whom? no one else is supposed to be alive. The Jubillees suggest that he procreated with his sister. Not a good message for the new church so these texts were not incorported and banned from Christian communities. Other stories suggested that Jesus was a bit of a rampant youth and these were deemed innappropriate also. Some of the accounts of Jesus' later life came too close to suggesting his mortality and these were banned (although some sects continued to use them, they were persecuted and hid their texts which were to be discovered later and become known as the dead sea scrolls or gnostic gospels).

Islam, as another, later jewish sect continued the use of the traditional texts and many of them, including some pertaining to the conception and life of Jesus, are found in the Koran, along with the later accounts of the life and teachings of the Prophet Mohammed. Interestingly, Islam holds Jesus and Mary in very high regard; Mary is seen as an especially pure mortal and Jesus a highly esteemed prophet. It's a shame that purists from both religions fail to note the close connections and deep shared history that they have, and instead focus on the negative.

The history of these religions is very deep and intricate - as a non-religous person, I find it very interesting to read about the evolution of religous beliefs, as it belies something about our desire to know and understand our world, as well as our need to resolve any small innacuraccy or inconsistency (many of these texts were designed to clarify conflicts in the torah or old testament) . Perhaps this connection is a bit too close to the bone for the more hard-line believers to handle.

J.R. wrote:Being a Christian means believing in Christ, whereas living by Christian values has a much broader meaning.

Interesting.

I would define being a Christian as living according to the teachings of Christ, that is, living by Christian values.

Extreme christians? Perhaps those who put power and control over others ahead of spirituality?

Or, to bring this back to the original thread one's who do not make medical services available to all.

Possibly extreme Christians are ones who force their views and values on others, without giving them any choice in the matter.

Katharine wrote:Possibly extreme Christians are ones who force their views and values on others, without giving them any choice in the matter.

I thought that was a Jehovah's Witness ?

They called hear the other day and asked me if I would be a Jehovah's Witness.

I said I'd be no good as I hadn't even seen the accident !

(Ahem) Returning to the subject of this thread ...

Did anyone see the headlines a couple of days ago exhorting women in their 30s to freeze their eggs before it's too late (after 9pm?)? I had this mental image of swarms of ladies stampeding Sainsbury's, cramming boxes of organic free-range into their freezers at home and Delia coming to the rescue with a series of cookery programmes using frozen eggs as the mainstay of the 30-something's cuisine for the next decade.