Health MATTERS

[Jude]

Chiropractioners don't manipulate....... those nasty people called Oestopaths do that - and biy does that hurt - I used to walk into a session ,and come out crawling and crying - gave that up pretty quick too!!!

[hoob]

ooh - a bit of a thread here.

Have recently been seen by a psychiatrist for depression after having reached a crisis recently (- hence a bit of a brain-fart (technical expression) on a different thread). Diagnosed likely episdoes going back some 20 years but with the cycles getting more severe

very odd really, having this slight disjointedness between living an everyday life (ie job etc) whilst having to fight the evil blackness. Lost the plot, big time, but now re-discovering who I am. Its interesting to find how much I am beginning to remember!

Pills are nice for stability but also doing physical things really really helps. Can't quite manage the 80 mile bike rides but will get there and forgotten how much I like swimming. Now all I need to do is get my family interested in sailing.

Is depression endemic in society as a whole - or is it just us?

regarding CFS/ME, I was one of the Commissioners who set up and now run the Sussex CFS/ME service. Would be interested in some views (I was going to ask "if there were any" - probably a stupid Q) as although we have CFS/ME sufferers/carers on the steering group, it is often difficult to get a non-personal view. Also they represent two separate charities and and a result hate each other with a vengeance (which can be quite amusing, but mostly annoying)

[englishangel]

ooh - a bit of a thread here.

Have recently been seen by a psychiatrist for depression after having reached a crisis recently (- hence a bit of a brain-fart (technical expression) on a different thread). Diagnosed likely episdoes going back some 20 years but with the cycles getting more severe

very odd really, having this slight disjointedness between living an everyday life (ie job etc) whilst having to fight the evil blackness. Lost the plot, big time, but now re-discovering who I am. Its interesting to find how much I am beginning to remember!

Pills are nice for stability but also doing physical things really really helps. Can't quite manage the 80 mile bike rides but will get there and forgotten how much I like swimming. Now all I need to do is get my family interested in sailing.

Is depression endemic in society as a whole - or is it just us?

regarding CFS/ME, I was one of the Commissioners who set up and now run the Sussex CFS/ME service. Would be interested in some views (I was going to ask "if there were any" - probably a stupid Q) as although we have CFS/ME sufferers/carers on the steering group, it is often difficult to get a non-personal view. Also they represent two separate charities and and a result hate each other with a vengeance (which can be quite amusing, but mostly annoying)

Many years ago both my parents-in-law died (within 2 months of each other - both 55) and a few months later husband got depression. He always says he 'walked it off' as every evening after dinner (mostly just pushed around his plate) we would go for a 5-6 mile walk. We haven't walked regularly before or since.

[Jude]

It seems from the department for Mental health that depression is on the increase - now whether that is because men are now being seen as having problems (many men refused to admit to having mental problems, and it was at times considered a "female" problem,) thankfully having mental instability isn't quite the hideous thing it once was thought as and although there are times when I would happily go to an asylum {serioulsy... kids drive you there} it's better to have "external" treatment.

Todays's society is thought to bring on more pressure and cause more anxiety and stress leading to the now number 2 cause for being off work - number 1 still being back related problems.....

Men now going for mental health treatment are actually finding that some thing triggers it long time ago, and that they have kept that trigger and others under control, until one day - Fizz - you and your brain part company, and you start doing wonderfully weird things or feeling terrible.
I'm still taking the pills as I don't have a clone who has not had the pills so I can't ask her if the pschotherapy has worked enough that I can stop taking the pills..... and having M.E. which causes depression just makes me need another clone to see what would happen to her. it's no good Doctors asking shall we try this out and see how you feel - it can take weeks for the drug to come out of the system firstly, and your family etc may treat you more kindly to begin with, but until you hit something that caused you a problem before ( but you don't know what that problem is as you were taking anti-depressants then and still don't have a clone to talk to) we won't know for about 6 months or more if we are actually feeling better and no longer need the anti-depressants... it's a catch 22 position really, regardless of reducing the dose over time, you are not ever going to know!

As for ME/CFS - I actually don't like the CFS bit - it makes ME sound like a lazy bu****s' illness, far from what it actually feels like! I haven't joined the local ME group - part of it is because I don't want to be with a lot of people all groaning about their aches and pains - just the one (me ) is enough in my little life!! Anyone who comes into contact with either a ME sufferer, MS sufferer can only be seen as having a bit of a shock - as some days you woud never know they were ill and others it's like the whole world is on their shoulders and you can see them crumble in front of you, - which is scary.

So Hoob - don't worry - everyone has a mental blip - some lasts longer than others - admitting you have a mental health problem is the first step to finding coping stratagies to live with it and through it. Personally I find the fact that a man has admitted it a very noble thing - see earlier - My fun things are films - my children tell me I have seen x,y, z, a,b,c, several times - but I don;'t remember so it's great to re-watch and remember them. I love swimming but refuse to go to the local pool on a day like today as it will be heaving with kids screaming - another thing I can't cope with - mental or ME or both.

Everyone is encouraged to motivate themselves to do more physical things - my GP had me going to the gym - it was probably that that caused the recent relapse of ME! So now I am taking my physical excercise as mowing the lawn - it looks good after you have done it... and pottering about with clay - I am finding my way back into ceramics which is good, but bad - as I have a wheel, clay and can even make up glazes, but I don't have a kiln, so I will have to go begging. Don't just think along the physical exercise line - also think along the art/craft/relax side as it is as good if not better than seritonin uptake inhibitor pills (anti-depressants), and you will learn more ways of coping when you are down, or actually seeing that because you really don't want to do the thing you enjoyed as a warning that you may be heading for another blip... again it's catch 22, without clones of ourselves who have taken a ,done b, and as a result are x, or a clone who has taken a. d, and e and as a result is y not one of us will REALLY KNOW what state our brain is in...

Medics know very little about the brain, they apply various chemicals to try to sort something out sometimes making things worse (in my case one dose of Prozac put me into a zombie state that lasted over 3 days - I have never had it since!) ECT should be banned, and none of us should really be on a drug that affects the brain for more than 6 months as it alters teh states of chemical outputs etc... I've been on Ciprolex (a seritonin unptake inhibitor drug - seritonin is your brains own way of making you feel "happy", so this drug blocks the uptake of it in my brain - so has my brain had to produce more????? or less?????? I don't know, neither do any doctors!) for 3 years now, I have no idea what will happen if I start to reduce and stop - as I am a crisis driven person - my coping stratagies in the past have been - to manage every crisis, work, home family, friends etc.. It's what I excelled at, I have had to learn that I cannot do this all the time as I am in a permanent state of high anxiety - literally waiting for the next crisis to occur!! So what happens when I stop the drugs, and a crisis hits? Do I sink or do I float? answers on a stamp please!

i think everyone has mental health issues, it's the way in which they and their closest family/friends handle it and them that makes the difference. If you are alone though, it makes life harder as there is no one to argue the toss with - and brick walls, pillows etc are no substitute in the middle of the night!

So, chin up folks, we are BRITISH and the thing BRITS are KNOWN FOR is THEIR STIFF UPPER LIP!! ha ha bloddy ha ha!

[J.R.]

A long, but well written piece, Jude.

The whole matter can be summarised quite easily.

The pressures and pace of life today.

OK - Victor Meldrew here, but when I was a kid, NO television, an antiquated radio which I was allowed to listen too for an hour or so each evening. I walked too and from primary school, (mile and a half each way). Junk food didn't exist, as didn't all this preservative cr@p they put in food now. No pressure to get the job done 'half an hour ago'. Instead, things got done when they got done. Until I went to CH, I was out playing in woods and fields until it started to get dark.

What food there was was pretty basic just a few years after WWII. Rationing still existed for some things. If we were lucky, we'd have a roast joint on a Saturday, cold meat and veg on a Sunday, stew on a Monday, and maybe some rissoles on Tuesday.

If you got one large present at Christmas, you considered yourself lucky and really looked forward to rummaging in your stocking on Christmas morning to find some pencils, a note pad, various other little bits and bobs, AND right at the bottom, the real treat of the day, an orange or a tangerine !

So shall we revert to the days of austerity, and banish the need for Prozac ???

[Tim_MaA_MidB]

Ahem...

"I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'."

[englishangel]

A long, but well written piece, Jude.

The whole matter can be summarised quite easily.

The pressures and pace of life today.

OK - Victor Meldrew here, but when I was a kid, NO television, an antiquated radio which I was allowed to listen too for an hour or so each evening. I walked too and from primary school, (mile and a half each way). Junk food didn't exist, as didn't all this preservative cr@p they put in food now. No pressure to get the job done 'half an hour ago'. Instead, things got done when they got done. Until I went to CH, I was out playing in woods and fields until it started to get dark.

What food there was was pretty basic just a few years after WWII. Rationing still existed for some things. If we were lucky, we'd have a roast joint on a Saturday, cold meat and veg on a Sunday, stew on a Monday, and maybe some rissoles on Tuesday.

If you got one large present at Christmas, you considered yourself lucky and really looked forward to rummaging in your stocking on Christmas morning to find some pencils, a note pad, various other little bits and bobs, AND right at the bottom, the real treat of the day, an orange or a tangerine !

So shall we revert to the days of austerity, and banish the need for Prozac ???

Much the same in my house, when I was a child and today.

To be truthful we do have a TV (well 2 actually, the second one in parents bedroom i.e. mine)

[sejintenej]

I have one doctor in a 6 doctor practice who takes as long as it needs, jumps patients to the front of the queue ................ whilst other doctors in the practice limit appointments to 5 to 10 minutes (that's what it says on the notice). As just one example my wife had a blood test the result of which sent Dr Subhani into a paroxym (?sp) of efficiency. New blood tests and full body scans had to be carried out immediately so she could have the results the following evening (she phoned the surgery from home to get them). She then phoned my wife on the mobile about the matter in considerable detail and arranged a consultant's appointment for 2 working days later in case the new results were bad. All on the NHS!!! In the event the new tests were better, we were allowed to go to Australia but she had the apointment for my wife set up for 2 days after we got back!

(In the event my wife does not have the condition feared but at least one realises that our doctor will not pussyfoot around if she thinks something is wrong).

Other doctors in the practice get you out as soon as possible though they know our background and give us a bit of extra time on the rare occasions we go there.


Our doctor in France takes a minimum of 20 minutes per patient but patients do not normally ring for an appointment. Hence long waits but that is normal with anything. (I have seen her come out to get the next patient, see an injured patient and jump him to the front of the queue (she does sewing jobs as well!). A normal appointment includes automatically blood pressure, pulse, tongue, eyes as well as any indicators for the condition. When we first went there were questions about medical history, inoculations, tests for flexibility and movement etc.so she had a background. She also does not pussyfoot around; my wife has had xrays, both of us have had medicines and I have been referred to a specialist (very long delay by French standards - all of 15 days.) On one occasion she went to the surgery 2 hours early (7.30am) so that she could take some blood samples before I had anything to eat or drink! You wouldn't get that in England.

I don't mind waiting provided I am convinced that the doctor is treating me as a human and not a statistic.

[Jude]

The average Dr's practice these days is given 7 mins per patient......
This is the bit that the NHS pay for! Or should I say WE pay for in our taxes? However, as seen, there are those GP's who WILL take the extra time and effort and make a patient relaxed and take time with their symptoms, however, sadly, with all these new PCT rules in place the in/out within 7 mins will be the norm, and those GP practices who don't will find themselves with less money. Why do we need everything done YESTERDAY? What happened to the washing machine HELPING a housewife out so she would have more time for herself, as it was noted that many women didn't have enough "Free" time?

All these new labour saving gadgets seem to do is encourage you to DO MORE, FASTER, which leads to the amount of stress we all seem to suffer!

I too had no tv growing up from 6 til CH, I climbed trees, made up games, my father didn't like me so regardless of the weather I was outside, in bed by 9.30pm (even when I turned 18 he wanted that bed time! I left home within a week!). In summer holidays after 14 I would get up a 5am and cycle 8 miles to go tomato picking - we were paid by weight, and had 20kilo bags strapped on us - no wonder I have a bad back!! but they had to be picked before mid-day as the greenhouses got too hot for us to legally work in them, so after that I would eat my sandwhich then cycle 10 miles in the way home but going past it to pick strawberries, blackcurrant(with a fork)raspberries etc... I didn't have a social life then! (mind you I'm not sure I have one now!!) I didn't have time for gameboys, PS 2, X cube and all the other crap - and I still don't now - I get quite cross when watching tv my daughter picks up her gameboy and starts playing it - she now has the sense to turn off the sound, but my son's life revolves around who he can kill, how many cars he can steal, how many cops he bashes etc all on these wretched electronic games - they do not stimulate the mind, they DO seem to have stimulated the culture of violence though, and to me a child of 13 should not know what is on a game for 18 and over, but parents seem to give in so easily - is it ANYTYHING for a quiet life???

[englishangel]

I have one doctor in a 6 doctor practice who takes as long as it needs, jumps patients to the front of the queue ................ whilst other doctors in the practice limit appointments to 5 to 10 minutes (that's what it says on the notice). As just one example my wife had a blood test the result of which sent Dr Subhani into a paroxym (?sp) of efficiency. New blood tests and full body scans had to be carried out immediately so she could have the results the following evening (she phoned the surgery from home to get them). She then phoned my wife on the mobile about the matter in considerable detail and arranged a consultant's appointment for 2 working days later in case the new results were bad. All on the NHS!!! In the event the new tests were better, we were allowed to go to Australia but she had the apointment for my wife set up for 2 days after we got back!

(In the event my wife does not have the condition feared but at least one realises that our doctor will not pussyfoot around if she thinks something is wrong).

Other doctors in the practice get you out as soon as possible though they know our background and give us a bit of extra time on the rare occasions we go there.


Our doctor in France takes a minimum of 20 minutes per patient but patients do not normally ring for an appointment. Hence long waits but that is normal with anything. (I have seen her come out to get the next patient, see an injured patient and jump him to the front of the queue (she does sewing jobs as well!). A normal appointment includes automatically blood pressure, pulse, tongue, eyes as well as any indicators for the condition. When we first went there were questions about medical history, inoculations, tests for flexibility and movement etc.so she had a background. She also does not pussyfoot around; my wife has had xrays, both of us have had medicines and I have been referred to a specialist (very long delay by French standards - all of 15 days.) On one occasion she went to the surgery 2 hours early (7.30am) so that she could take some blood samples before I had anything to eat or drink! You wouldn't get that in England.

I don't mind waiting provided I am convinced that the doctor is treating me as a human and not a statistic.

Yes you would. At the practice where I worked the nurse started at 7.30am once a week to do stuff like that.

I did some cover for them last Thursday while the whole practice had an 'awayday'.

There are two partners and a salaried (half-time) doctor and the two partners were both in at 8'clock and did an hour, then a locum did the rest of the morning. When the locum was put on the computer to input data I expressed surprise that there wasn't a 'locum' spot, the practice manager said it was the first time in 4 years that a locum had been used.

[Hannoir]

I got glandular fever in my first year at uni. Initially, cos I had a really bad cough and trouble sleeping the doctor prescribed me with sleeping pills, but I didn't get better. So I had to say to him that I had all the symptons for glandular fever and then I got a blood test, and yep, I had it. Stayed in bed and slept loads, consequently messed up the first year of uni! No good at all. Had to drink loads of fluids, have vitamin C loads and other stuff.

Havent been to the docs in NZ yet but both surgeries at home use the same day appt system which i find good and bad - good cos you only go if you need to and bad cos the phones get clogged up in the morning.

[hoob]

Mine have a similar system, but are only open between 9 and 5, and you have to ring before 9.30 or after 4.30 if you want to attempt the next day. Have to have your left leg rolled up to the knee, shirt open and waving a funny hat.......

By this time I'm normally at least 45 miles away and not planning on coming back before 7.

NHS Direct usually say go to A&E

I have to really, really, really need the drugs.......

Last time I went for anything serious (other than now) they nearly killed me, so am slightly distrustful.

[cj]

I bashed my foot on a trolley in Morrison's supermarket this morning and now I've broken my toe! It's a rather nice shade of deep plum with tinges of black. Ought I to redo my nail polish to match?

[Katharine]

I once broke my toe going up marble stairs in a temper, so sympathies Cath. I well remember hopping around the rest of the day coping with two small boys; next morning I could hardly get out of bed. One hip was so sore with muscles unaccustomed to hopping and the other foot with a broken big toe. Hope you haven't made the same mistake.

If yours is like mine, you will have trouble keeping matching the nail varnish it changed colour several times!

[englishangel]

You can get polish which changes in the light, I had one which was purple one way and gold the other, that would do.

Mine are surrently silver to match my sandals.