Brexit

[MrEd]

Regarding stamps in passports, AIUI, if you enter the Schengen area on a UK passport, you get stamped in at the port of entry and your 90 days in any 180-days, and stamped out when you leave the Schengen area.

In the early 1980s, Spain and Portugal were outside the EEC, and spending much of the school holidays in western Andalusia, by popping over to Portugal regularly I almost filled my passport with the stamps (4 per trip was expected, but the Spanish border police were extremely laid-back and often did not bother or even show up at the border post, and there was never an issue.

Anyway, I will be going to Portugal next month so I will see for myself.

[sejintenej]

After many hours of hard thinking I came up with something!!!

Arriving at Heathrow it was time again, I showed the UK passport and was asked by a quite stern official how long I was staying and did I have a return ticket. Bit strange when one is a citizen of the country.
Arriving back in Sweden a quick walk throug the EU control while the poor Brits stood in a long line waiting for a more severe control.

Only just seen your post.
After working for too long in West Africa I had plenty of leave so spent much of it guiding tourists around, helping teach UK armed forces survival et al which took 3 months LESS about 4 days. Incredible holiday.

Next time I entered Norway the immigration officer, with a half smile asked "and how long will you be staying this time, sir? I appreciated his manner. During that time my passport was due to run out so I posted it with a cheque to the embassy in Oslo. Very quickly it came back extended. Good service.

[sejintenej]

I remain uncertain whether to bother. Both parents were from Ireland - one north, one south so I am technically an Irish (Republic) citizen but not registered as such. Apparently the registration (I have al the documents) can take two years and to get a first republic passport another year.

And why? I have just discovered plentiful cousins 50 yards south of the Ulster border whom I have never met and after nearly 80 years my wife has discovered close relatives in Italy - again never met. At my age and health can I be bothered?

[Katharine]

I remain uncertain whether to bother. Both parents were from Ireland - one north, one south so I am technically an Irish (Republic) citizen but not registered as such. Apparently the registration (I have al the documents) can take two years and to get a first republic passport another year.

And why? I have just discovered plentiful cousins 50 yards south of the Ulster border whom I have never met and after nearly 80 years my wife has discovered close relatives in Italy - again never met. At my age and health can I be bothered?

Are those current times? I didn’t need to register as a citizen, I just applied for a passport and it took about 2 months, pre-Pandemic. You are already an Irish citizen and like me have been since your birth. Have you got all the right certificates? I may have had to supply more than you to prove descent from my mother. I had her birth certificate, my parents marriage certificate first change of surname, my birth certificate and my marriage certificate second change of surname

My sons’ registration was delayed by Covid but after the certificate came the passport, which had to be applied for, took about six weeks last spring.

[jhopgood]

My grandson was born in County Mayo, but my son was told he was not entitled to get an Irish passport as neither of his parents were Irish. My son was born in Costa Rica, but has a British passport, and his wife is French. They got him a French passport as that was easier.
To make life easier living in the UK, my daughter-in-law now has a British passport but they had problems getting my grandson one, despite the fact that his four sisters were all born in the UK.
Finally he got one, and travelling to Europe they use whichever is most convenient.
My son has always wanted to work in Europe, but is hampered by having to get a work permit, so is now thinking of improving his french to get a French passport.
At this rate I will be the only family member with one passport, unless I try for a Spanish one.
Obviously these are all bureaucratic inconveniences, but I have yet to come across anyone who has benefited from Brexit.

[Katharine]

I don’t think anyone will be surprised that we didn’t get a Pakistani passport for the son born there! At that time, 1975, we had to provide our marriage certificate to get him registered as British. He would not have been British had he been illegitimate, I cannot believe that is still the case.

Obviously these are all bureaucratic inconveniences, but I have yet to come across anyone who has benefited from Brexit.

Neither have I!

[scrub]

I don’t think anyone will be surprised that we didn’t get a Pakistani passport for the son born there! At that time, 1975, we had to provide our marriage certificate to get him registered as British. He would not have been British had he been illegitimate, I cannot believe that is still the case.

I can't remember if they have changed that ruling yet, but there's been at least one recent, well publicised case where a kid born in the UK to a UK citizen mother and an Aus citizen father was sent a deportation letter because he was deemed to be Australian. Without marriage (and even with it in some cases it seems) citizenship is determined by the status of the father.

It's mad, but that's just par for the course for the Home Office who, until not all that long ago, decreed that any UK woman marrying a non-UK man would automatically lose her UK citizenship. This is before we get stuck into the whole mess that is visa fees, interviews, wait times, administrivia, and all the excess costs that migrant workers already get stung with if they want to work and stay in the UK.

As I think I've said before, between my wife and I, we've got first hand experience of the working/long-term visa and citizenship processes of UK, Oz, USA, and France, and while they all have their annoyances, the absolute worst, hands-down frustrating and scariest (even for a UK born cit of UK born parents) is the UK Home Office.

[jhopgood]

As I think I've said before, between my wife and I, we've got first hand experience of the working/long-term visa and citizenship processes of UK, Oz, USA, and France, and while they all have their annoyances, the absolute worst, hands-down frustrating and scariest (even for a UK born cit of UK born parents) is the UK Home Office.

Judging from the experience of my grandson, couldn’t agree more. Seems to me they don’t even want their own citizens. Makes you wonder why the refugees don’t just stay in Europe. Must be the language.

[scrub]

Judging from the experience of my grandson, couldn’t agree more. Seems to me they don’t even want their own citizens. Makes you wonder why the refugees don’t just stay in Europe. Must be the language.

The majority do. In general, the majority of refugees (I think it's about 70%) end up in neighbouring countries.
Despite the noise made in the UK press and certain *ahem* flexible interpretations of reality made by prominent politicians, the UK hosts a much smaller number of refugees and asylum seekers than most other European countries.

Language and cultural history would certainly play a part in people's desire to seek refuge there, especially for anyone coming from a part of the former British Empire. There are also people who have worked with British forces/companies/institutions and whose home country is now fatally hostile towards them. There's more than a few Afghan and Iraqi translators and guides in this position. If someone's got that sort of personal connection with a country, it's really easy to see why they'd focus on getting to the UK.

[Katharine]

As I think I've said before, between my wife and I, we've got first hand experience of the working/long-term visa and citizenship processes of UK, Oz, USA, and France, and while they all have their annoyances, the absolute worst, hands-down frustrating and scariest (even for a UK born cit of UK born parents) is the UK Home Office.

Neither of my parents was born in the current UK, my father in the Bahamas and my mother in County Wexford. Had things been different I might have been born in Borneo. My father was on board ship in Southampton about to go there as a missionary when the news came through that the Japanese had landed and beheaded his predecessor on the beach. He became an RAF chaplain instead! The plan was that my mother would follow him when she qualified as a midwife and marry him there. I imagine had my brothers and I been born there we might have had difficulties of citizenship!

[loringa]

I remain uncertain whether to bother. Both parents were from Ireland - one north, one south so I am technically an Irish (Republic) citizen but not registered as such. Apparently the registration (I have al the documents) can take two years and to get a first republic passport another year.

Are those current times? I didn’t need to register as a citizen, I just applied for a passport and it took about 2 months, pre-Pandemic. You are already an Irish citizen and like me have been since your birth. Have you got all the right certificates? I may have had to supply more than you to prove descent from my mother. I had her birth certificate, my parents marriage certificate first change of surname, my birth certificate and my marriage certificate second change of surname

My sons’ registration was delayed by Covid but after the certificate came the passport, which had to be applied for, took about six weeks last spring.

I found the whole process of registering for Irish citizenship to be pretty quick and straightforward. My maternal grandfather was born in what is now the Republic but getting his birth certificate was pretty simple (from the Irish authorities), and I needed his marriage certificate to my grandmother and, IIRC, his death certificate. I needed the same for my own mother and my own UK birth certificate. In my dealings with them, they couldn't have been more helpful. My grandfather was registered as Ernest, Sydney Seth SMITH at birth but died as Patrick Sidney, Ernest SETH-SMITH, the Irish official I dealt with didn't seem to find that unduly strange and certainly not a significant bureaucratic hurdle. It cost about 190 euros I think. I was than granted an Irish Citizen by descent birth certificate which came with a passport application. Having been born in Malta I also have a Maltese birth certificate but I am not eligible for citizenship; were I a Russian with a bit of cash to spare, the situation would be different.

As for Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving, the failings of the Home Office go way beyond that and, for once, it's not something I would place at Brexit's door.

[sejintenej]

My son has always wanted to work in Europe, but is hampered by having to get a work permit, so is now thinking of improving his french to get a French passport.

Although I am comfortable with French after so many years a friend took the oral exam with a gendarme and the sound of it was frightening. one error and you fail. I certainly was never up to that - it took 2 years to understand the hamlet patron. There was a distinct patois where I lived - even the valley, commune and hamlet names were in Catalan though one nearby commune did merit having its name in French as well!.
We had a retired gendarme from the diplomatic group and he was fine though everyone "respected him! Hand bigger than a dinner plate - my guess is they had to rebuild the trigger guard so he could get his finger onto the trigger.

[scrub]

As for Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving, the failings of the Home Office go way beyond that and, for once, it's not something I would place at Brexit's door.

Absolutely agree.

I've got a lot of friends who have had to navigate the winds of the UK HO over the last 20 years and when you talk to them about it you can see the progression from slow but generally helpful, to slower and grumpy, and finally, to outright hostile. All the while becoming more and more expensive.

The biggest turning point was after Theresa May's "Hostile Environment" speech in 2012 (?). That directed its trajectory over the last decade and I've not seen any evidence that anyone currently in power wants to do anything except find new ways of making it seem more hostile and less efficient/effective.

[jhopgood]

We had a retired gendarme from the diplomatic group and he was fine though everyone "respected him! Hand bigger than a dinner plate - my guess is they had to rebuild the trigger guard so he could get his finger onto the trigger.

Reminds me of a story I got from one of the security personnel at a British Embassy (can’t remember which), about his time in Bolivia and teaching a local to use a gun. Apparently one guard had such long fingers that one wrapped itself over the nozzle, and had to be constantly warned about the risk of losing the end of his finger.

[jhopgood]

My maternal grandfather was born in what is now the Republic but getting his birth certificate was pretty simple (from the Irish authorities), and I needed his marriage certificate to my grandmother and, IIRC, his death certificate.

My grandmother, who died of TB before WWII, was supposed to have been Irish, because of her accent. However, having done the family tree, I discovered that she was born in Silvertown and that her parents were married in Birmingham, so that put paid of that route to an Irish passport.
I have always wondered if the people who knew her, my father, uncles and aunts, hadn’t confused the accent with the Birmingham accent, and that we were somehow related/involved with the Peaky Blinders mob. Her surname was Kendling, which doesn’t sound Irish.