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Angela Woodford wrote:Were the relics of St Teresa?
Yes, St Therese of Lisieux. Born 1873. She became a French nun aged 15 and died aged 24 of TB. Canonised in 1925
I find it interesting how the media, particularly the BBC takes the p*** out of Christians but venerates Jews and Muslims
and yet when you see the crowds at an event like this you think that it's not all over for the Christians, whatever they say in the media.
Angela Woodford wrote:Were the relics of St Teresa?
Yes, St Therese of Lisieux. Born 1873. She became a French nun aged 15 and died aged 24 of TB. Canonised in 1925
I find it interesting how the media, particularly the BBC takes the p*** out of Christians but venerates Jews and Muslims
and yet when you see the crowds at an event like this you think that it's not all over for the Christians, whatever they say in the media.
Rant Rant!
I went with my wife to see them at Aylesford Priory on Sunday. She was keen to go whereas I was ambivalent but I am very glad I did decide to go as, to my surprise, I found it a very moving experience.
I believe Chichester is now the only English cathedral which does not have a compulsory admission charge, but they may be forced to introduce one, as the income from voluntary donations is pitiful !! I guess the problem is that with dwindling numbers of practising Christians actually supporting the Church financially, our churches and cathedrals are increasingly functioning as tourist attractions rather than as places of worship, in which case it seems only reasonable that they should charge visitors. The alternative is to see these buildings fall into disrepair, or be lost altogether.
Maybe the Church of England should consider introducing annual membership, something along the lines of the Museums and Galleries Association. They could offer discounted or free membership cards as a reward (or incentive!) to active members of the Church community, and everyone would be happy!
I have no objection to paying at all, I think we paid twice as much as requested when we went to Durham Cathedral, but we went to it as a tourist attraction.
"If a man speaks, and there isn't a woman to hear him, is he still wrong?"
Lisieux was on the list of places we visited on our last trip through France. (Don't book into the Ibis hotel as it is very difficult to find at 1.00am).
Very large church? full of kids on their visit, and certainly no entry charge.
The next day we went to Paray-le-Monial where something else happened.
In fact, of the places we have visited on my wife's pilgrimages, none have had entry fees.
However, Valencia, where we live, has the cathedral entrance divided. Left for those going to mass, confession or meditation etc, and right for tourists, who pay. They have the areas roped off inside and charge extra for going to the crypt, the museum, to see one of the many "original" chalices, or up the tower. They have only been charging for the last few years, but it is annoying to pay again when new visitors arrive and have to be shown the sights.
I am a 'cradle' Catholic - went to Mass in Hertford in addition to CH services - but 'wore my knees out' for a bit, after leaving school, with all that kneeling! I don't see myself as religious, but definitely spiritual. Did rejoin the church after a few years and have always found the rituals and traditions comforting - also the sense of belonging to a greater group. Don't currently attend church (belong to a running group that runs long on Sunday mornings) - obviously the knees recovered!! I do believe that it is the same 'god' regardless of the human constraints placed upon it, and that it is within us, rather than elsewhere. I also think that I would rather be a 24/7 'good' person living a decent moral life, than a Sunday - only Christian, who strips off the gloves with the Sunday suit and has 'no holds barred' with intolerance for the rest of the week. So - the answer is "sometimes"!!
I don't go because of idleness as much as anything, but I was also put off by Joe's brother, who was known to the local clergy as "your holy brother" and could be most unpleasant. I think he did.'t like me because he thought I was far too cocky for a woman, his wife was of the doormat type. He had a go at me for not going to Mass while they were staying with us, and I had the temerity to ask if he only considered it as fire insurance.
Thou shalt not sit with statisticians nor commit a social science.
Good for you, Midget! It's people like that whose arrogance and closed-mind thinking / philosophy put me off church for so long. The one I go to is absolutely not snobbish and most of the people who go are not well educated and multi-cultural (as a white middle class man I am in the minority), and the vicar is humble and inclusive of other ideas, although, as an Anglo-Catholic church, it is against women priests and bishops. I think the argument is doctrinal rather than what most people think (backward looking, sexist). And incidentally (he says groaning a little as he mounts his hobby horse) isn't it rich that this type of thing in the Christian church is scoffed at / taken the p*** out of / derided whereas the Jews and Muslims are seen as protecting their precious "rights" by not allowing women to take services. When will people accuse THEM of sexism. No-one would dare, for fear of being called "racist" Typical double standards of the BBC. I do not pay my license as a result of being sick of their political bias.
I enjoyed that rant. Now I must call nurse - its time for me pills...
Arthur C Clarke said "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
I notice the BBC wheeled out a bishop to give a moral perspective during the recent debate on dignity in death / assisted suicide; he said life is god's gift and it's up to him to decide when life should end. Complete nonsense. I have no faith - I went from agnostic to atheist very quickly and it is entirely liberating - my brain is my shepherd.
Every day we walked / marched into the quad beneath the motto "Fear God, Honour the King" Fear God? Why? It always puzzled me.
I enjoy reading Buddhist philosophy - albeit on a very superficial level. It's fascinating. I find a traditional figure of the Buddha very conductive to "mindfullness" - kind of, erm, like calm, wise and meditative. I would rather contemplate a Buddha figure than a crucifix.
I have also experienced moments in my life that a Buddhist might identify as "satori", which is a brief flash of enlightenment. Just a few times, when everything seemed to make sense. And one of those times was in a Quaker Meeting Room.
I don't know. Spirituality can be found in all kinds of places and times.
Hey, listen to me rambling on -
"Baldrick, you wouldn't recognise a cunning plan if it painted itself purple, and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing "Cunning plans are here again.""
I remember achieving "enlightenment" by the use of illicit substances while at art college but it is possible to do it without
I was put off buddhism and the other easy esoteric ones by some ghastly hippies who were just showing off anyway
I do find the thoughts of a lot of people here interesting
It seems that though CH was a christian religious foundation, it only got a minority of people to stay with or go back to the faith, but it certainly gave people the ability in most cases to argue their point intelligently and with some thought having gone into the argument before
Funny mix of people at Westminster Cathedral this afternoon to see St Therese...Nuns, monks, vicars, lots of Catholics, some people plainly just curious, some devout kissing the thing, and a vast family of gypsies; two hard bitten, fat women who looked like they wanted a fight with fags in their mouths who were blessed with about 5 cat faced snotty nosed daughters who behaved appallingly much to the consternation of the wardens and much to my amusement
