Health and safety too far?

[Katharine]

Today I was clearing cards and found one which had a separate image attached with little foam pads. I liked the colour of the card and thought I'd save it. When I looked at the back I saw the following printed:

Warning: This card is not a toy and is unsuitable for children under 36 months. Contains small parts.

I feel this is health and safety too far. There were NO small parts.

[J.R.]

Don't get me started on 'Elf and Insanity', Katharine !

On a supermarket packet of cashew nuts.

"WARNING ! NUT ALLERGY - This packet contains nuts."

But my favourite.

"WARNING - Small children may choke on Nuts !" I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

[MKM]

Today I was clearing cards and found one which had a separate image attached with little foam pads. I liked the colour of the card and thought I'd save it. When I looked at the back I saw the following printed:

Warning: This card is not a toy and is unsuitable for children under 36 months. Contains small parts.

I feel this is health and safety too far. There were NO small parts.

Perhaps a small child had eaten them

[englishangel]

We had a couple of elves in yesterday, we have no back exit for fire and we have electrical wires up the Ying Yand for the computers. all they said was "Get a first Aid Box, ge the fire extinguishers checked and ge tthe electrical appliances PAT tested

[jhopgood]

For all the Elves from people of a certain age.

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY WHO WERE BORN IN THE 1940's, 50's and 60's !


First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us and lived in houses made of asbestos..
They took aspirin, ate blue cheese, raw egg products, loads of bacon and processed meat, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer.
Then after that trauma, our baby cots were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.
We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets or shoes, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.
As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.
We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle.
Take away food was limited to fish and chips, no pizza shops, McDonalds, KFC, Subway or Nandos.
Even though all the shops closed at 6.00pm and didn't open on the weekends, somehow we didn't starve to death! Banks closed all weekend too and there were NO Cash Machines.
We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.
We could collect old drink bottles and cash them in at the corner store and buy Toffees, Gobstoppers, Bubble Gum and some bangers to blow up frogs with.
We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank soft drinks with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......
WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of old prams and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. We built tree houses and dens and played in river beds with matchbox cars.
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo Wii, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 999 channels on SKY, no video/dvd films, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no Lawsuits from these accidents.
Only girls had pierced ears!
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
You could only buy Easter Eggs and Hot Cross Buns at Easter time...
We were given air guns and catapults for our 10th birthdays.
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!
Mum didn't have to go to work to help dad make ends meet!
RUGBY and CRICKET had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!! Getting into the team was based on MERIT
Our teachers used to hit us with canes and gym shoes - and bully's always ruled the playground at school.
The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of.
They actually sided with the law!
Our parents didn't invent stupid names for their kids like 'Kiora' and 'Blade' and 'Ridge' and 'Vanilla'
We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL!

And YOU are one of them!

CONGRATULATIONS!

You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good.

Some of the above, such as the bullying and blowing up frogs, I am quite pleased that they happen less frequently, but for the rest of it, we seemed to have survived quite well. What I find confusing is that having survived our childhood, we were the generation that ensured our children and grandchildren would be wrapped up in cotton wool and took all of the risk out of their lives, leaving them poorly prepared for the Bad World out there.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

God Bless You J Hopgood !
I was born on the 20s (!) and my Mother was a "Flapper" of the Avante Garde,
She dressed me in a bathing costume Summer and Winter, refused to use "Baby Talk",---Not Baa Lambs but SHEEP,- had me readig (Sort of) at 3, on the Tube, --- LONDON BRIGEE ! and I could swim before I was 3, due to bribery by Nestles
penny choc bars --Now swim to the side from here ---!
She took me to Tea Dances at the age of 10, which I hated, but at 17, was eternally grateful that I could dance properly at the local Hop -----Dancing nowadays seems to be gyrating at a diatance from your partner --- how can you get a grip on a girl ? ( THAT will get me into trouble from them "Others" )
Mother died at 95, with everything disabled, except her Brain and her Tongue -- which were in perfect working order, being nearly blind, she would do crosswords in her head !
You will gather that I am forever grateful to the Old Girl,--- My Nurse Wife, decided that she should live with us ----- this lasted for 18 years !!! somewhat unexpectedly !
My point is --- she had no concept of Elf & Safety, but was the Pedant to end all !! Rather like Mrs Bucket -- she insisted that she didn't live on an Estate -- But a "Residential Area "
Great Genes on the Female side, her mother died on her 97th Birthday and was digging her garden at 95
On the Male side ---- oh dear ! I am the oldest living Male EVER in the Evans Family --- but I am only 80 so there is hope yet !!
Does the "Nanny State" increase our longevity ?-- Probably so ---but where has all the FUN gone ?
Ba B 40-46

[englishangel]

My offspring and I go Ceroc dancing which is somewhere between ballroom and Latin but you definitely have to hold your partner and the boys particularly are in great demand at parties because they can dance 'properly'.

[Angela Woodford]

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us ]

and some of those mothers took a really reliable anti-nausea medication called thalidomide...

Just a thought.

[sejintenej]

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us ]

and some of those mothers took a really reliable anti-nausea medication called thalidomide...

Just a thought.

Yes, it is absolutely marvellous for multiple myeloma (a type of blood cancer) and it looks as if it may be effective in stopping the growth of cancer growths by preventing the formation of the necessary blood vessels.

We even took aspirin which can destroy thew stomach lining and when we got scared of that we took paracetemol (tylenol)which damages the kidneys.

We believed them when they told us to always drink at least 2 and a half litres of water a day despite the damaging side effects such as hyponatraemia, loss of potassium, calcium, magnesium, trace elements, vitamins B &C and folic acid

Did you follow Dr Spock's instrucytions in child care (or have I got his dates wrong for you personally). You will recall that having made his milions from the books he wrote he came out and admitted that he had got it all wrong.

Whilst I agree with you, Angela, we have to remember that many of the things which are recommended turn out to have nasty side effects. What John listed existed because at the time either it was safe to do so (kids were safe in the streets then) or people simply didn't know any better - which is exactly the same reason why thalidomide was prescribed to gravidae

[Misterbee]

Again and again we see "Helf an Saifty" being pilliaried as a result of over cautious, risk averse goody two shoes types who seem totally detached from the real world.
Health and Safety is extremely important and should be implemented effectively and efficiently. Unfortunately it is very easily stifled and trivialised primarily due to excessive beurocracy.
There is an interesting section within the HSE web site that draws attention to dispelling certain myths relating to Health and Safety.
You may be wondering why I am championing such a cause.
I work with explosives! If I observe sensible HS practices I get to go home at the end of each day with same number of bits I arrived with and if I'm lucky, in the same order!

[jhopgood]

I work with explosives! If I observe sensible HS practices I get to go home at the end of each day with same number of bits I arrived with and if I'm lucky, in the same order!

My father was an Explosives Liaison Officer with the Met and lost 2 colleagues when they were diffusing IRA bombs. I don't envy you your job.
He was pretty careful when he knew what it was, not like the pc who blew off a hand sweeping up some fertilizer and sugar concoction spilt at a local youth club, but he still had his fair share of scares, as did I.
He had some live explosives and detonators as part of his demonstration kit, which I found when clearing up the garage after he died. 5 police cars, one van, an explosive expert and the dogs to sort that out. The road was cordoned off as well.
I'm afraid I'm a believer in common sense and not panicking before I apply the rules.
In many cases, the rules stop one from thinking, and that, I believe is dangerous.

[englishangel]

If you speak to any Health and Safety Officer they have an abundance of common sense and most of the so-called H & S rules are put in place by the schools, companies etc for fear of being sued because as John said people no longer think for themselves and don't teach their children to either.

[Angela Woodford]

Did you follow Dr Spock's instrucytions in child care (or have I got his dates wrong for you personally). You will recall that having made his milions from the books he wrote he came out and admitted that he had got it all wrong.

Whilst I agree with you, Angela, we have to remember that many of the things which are recommended turn out to have nasty side effects. What John listed existed because at the time either it was safe to do so (kids were safe in the streets then) or people simply didn't know any better - which is exactly the same reason why thalidomide was prescribed to gravidae

I bow to your superior knowledge, David and John. I do agree with you both, really!

Dr Spock? Never read a word he wrote! Having my three in the 80's, and having no experience of babies whatsoever, I consulted the M&S Baby Book from time to time. ("Not just 80's babies, but...."). Healthy lot they were, too...

[sejintenej]

If you speak to any Health and Safety Officer they have an abundance of common sense and most of the so-called H & S rules are put in place by the schools, companies etc for fear of being sued because as John said people no longer think for themselves and don't teach their children to either.

We are getting into deep and murky waters here.
In working with children one has to be vetted and the first stage is that your identity is checked by the submission of specified documents. When I was being vetted on behalf of Essex County Council a birth certificate was one of the specified possible documents but having been adopted twice I put forward an original adoption certificate (which is acceptable to the Passport Office etc) because quite simply I am not allowed my original birth certificate. The Council's representative refused to accept an original UK adoption certificate issued by order of the Courts but in its place was perfectly happy to accept a bank statement issued in French by a French branch of a French bank! I told them (politely) that I didn't want want their bovine defecation
I suppose the reason is that you had to be adopted because your parents had mistreated you and you have learned how to mistreat kids. (In my case my parents both died in hospital because of enemy action / post surgical problem but I suppose the authorities take the view that I was mistreated by my parents dying at the wrong time)

H & S officers might have an abundance of comon sense personally but they cannot use that common sense because of the stupidities of the UK system. Some years ago a group of scouts died in bad weather in (from memory) the Brecon Beacons. The press headlined that they were ill equipped, inexperienced, not properly led, did not know the area, had not heeded the weather forecasts ............ The official enquiry found that that group of boys had and had used the best equipment available, they camped in that area on average every two weeks summer and winter, had been heard to ring for the weather forecast which turned ot to be good, were well tyrained and experienced and that death was an unfortunatew accident which no amount of training and experience could have avoided. Of course the report findings were not published in the newspapers. That is what health and safety people have to contend with.
The other difficultuy is that it is retrospective; an incident occurs in the future and there is trouble because the circumstances 5 years before had not been prevented even though on that occasion there had been no problem. We simply don't know what the morons are going to dream up next.

In my own compant the law calls for a person called an MLRO who is responsible for preventing certain types of illegal activity and liaising with the police. A branch outside the UK was found guilty because of some irregularity which their equivalent couldn't have picked up and fined several hundreds of millions; it was a contractural term that the MLRO was personally responsible for and liable to pay out of his own pocket anf such fine. Do you wonder why, although I did that job, I refused appointment to that post?

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

In the Army, I also, was in Explosives and I still have all my fingers !
I seem to remember there was an attitude of being very careful ---but still making jokes about the job Viz.
" On opening the casing, you will see three wires -- Red Green and Yellow -- Cut the red wire --- (Turning the page )----- After first isolating the Main Fuse !" an alternative is : "Whatever you do, be careful not to----Oh Heck, somebody's spilt coffee over this bit ! !"
I think it is probably, inherent in us to make fun of Danger, to relieve the strain.
The point about these Posts is that H & S cAN get to the ridiculous stage --- which then detracts from the essential messages and Practice !