Can you be a Christian and also accept you may be wrong?
Moderator: Moderators
- jtaylor
- Forum Administrator
- Posts: 1880
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:32 am
- Real Name: Julian Taylor
- Location: Wantage, OXON
- Contact:
Can you be a Christian and also accept you may be wrong?
This may be far too serious for this section of the forum(!?) but I was having a debate with what I call an "Evo" (extremely Evangelic Christian) at work, about whether it's possible to believe:-
1. That Jesus is the Son of God,
2. That he's the only way to salvation.
3. BUT, to also believe that other religions may ALSO be right in their beliefs, and be equally saved?
I maintain that if we don't have an open mind to the possibility that we (Christians) may be wrong, then we cease to challenge our own beliefs, and hence cease to grow in our understanding of what a true Christian Faith means??
My view is also that if we only believe 1 & 2, then it follows that all other people are going to Hell (i.e. not "saved") and hence that others are somewhat of less value? This is what can/does lead to war, whichever religion you follow, if you believe that only you are right??
Discuss.....?
(to make my position clear, I grew up in a vicarage family, regular church, choir, cathedral singing etc. - I have a fairly strong faith, but aren't a regular church-goer or evangeliser!)
1. That Jesus is the Son of God,
2. That he's the only way to salvation.
3. BUT, to also believe that other religions may ALSO be right in their beliefs, and be equally saved?
I maintain that if we don't have an open mind to the possibility that we (Christians) may be wrong, then we cease to challenge our own beliefs, and hence cease to grow in our understanding of what a true Christian Faith means??
My view is also that if we only believe 1 & 2, then it follows that all other people are going to Hell (i.e. not "saved") and hence that others are somewhat of less value? This is what can/does lead to war, whichever religion you follow, if you believe that only you are right??
Discuss.....?
(to make my position clear, I grew up in a vicarage family, regular church, choir, cathedral singing etc. - I have a fairly strong faith, but aren't a regular church-goer or evangeliser!)
Julian Taylor-Gadd
Leigh Hunt 1985-1992
Founder of The Unofficial CH Forum
https://www.grovegeeks.co.uk - IT Support and website design for home, small businesses and charities.
Leigh Hunt 1985-1992
Founder of The Unofficial CH Forum
https://www.grovegeeks.co.uk - IT Support and website design for home, small businesses and charities.
-
- 2nd Former
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:42 am
- Real Name: Peter Hitchcock
- Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Other religions
The way I have come to terms with this question is:
That this is what we as Christians are taught to believe, that the only way to the Father is through faith in Jesus, not by works .
For non-Christians, it is not for us to know, but we believe in a merciful, loving, all powerful God who might well rejoice in people of other faiths.
I don't think it is as black and white as most Evangelicals would like to believe, as it is with most things.
Peter
That this is what we as Christians are taught to believe, that the only way to the Father is through faith in Jesus, not by works .
For non-Christians, it is not for us to know, but we believe in a merciful, loving, all powerful God who might well rejoice in people of other faiths.
I don't think it is as black and white as most Evangelicals would like to believe, as it is with most things.
Peter
-
- Button Grecian
- Posts: 3285
- Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:44 pm
- Real Name: Katharine Dobson
- Location: Gwynedd
As a daughter and grand-daughter of clerics, it is something I have come to terms with in years of living overseas with friends of many faiths. My variation would be that Jesus is MY way to salvation. I accept quite fully that had I been born into a different family my beliefs would be quite different.
We tried to bring our sons up in the Christian faith, without criticising other faiths too much.
I hope this does not make me sound a wishy washy Christian, because I am not, but I don't often put it down in black and white.
We tried to bring our sons up in the Christian faith, without criticising other faiths too much.
I hope this does not make me sound a wishy washy Christian, because I am not, but I don't often put it down in black and white.
Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
- DavebytheSea
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:33 am
- Real Name: David Eastburn
- Location: Nr Falmouth, Cornwall
As Christians we must believe - that is to say we must have faith, for that is the only way to salvation (John 3:16). Now faith is not knowledge - it requires a degree of trust in those things which we cannot know for certain i.e. it is something less than knowledge. We are therefore all to some extent like doubting Thomas - forever seeking proof. One day we believe that proof will come and like Paul on the road to Damascus, we shall be enlightened. Even them, we may well not have the whole truth but just enough to strengthen our faith in the risen Christ.
Until that whole truth is revealed, I think we would be most unwise to claim that we and we alone have the whole story; certainly in my own (rather long) life, it has been my unfortunate experience that as often as not I get things a little confused! (You may have noticed!). When I left Housie I had all the answers, now I am not so sure, and have to rely on faith to give me a compass bearing along which I try, rather unsuccessfully at times, to steer..
Until that whole truth is revealed, I think we would be most unwise to claim that we and we alone have the whole story; certainly in my own (rather long) life, it has been my unfortunate experience that as often as not I get things a little confused! (You may have noticed!). When I left Housie I had all the answers, now I am not so sure, and have to rely on faith to give me a compass bearing along which I try, rather unsuccessfully at times, to steer..
David Eastburn (Prep B and Mid A 1947-55)
- Mid A 15
- Button Grecian
- Posts: 3172
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 1:38 pm
- Real Name: Claude Rains
- Location: The Patio Of England (Kent)
A question that has occupied theologians of all creeds for thousands of years.
Being a simple soul I look at it this way.
All religions believe in a superior force. For convenience let us call the superior force God.
Three major religions Christianity, Judaism and Islam have the Old Testament, particularly the Ten Commandments, as common ground. They also all acknowledge the existence of Jesus Christ. They disagree though as to his significance in the great scheme of things.
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and was crucified and rose again to save us and He is therefore the way to eternal life for me.
However God works in mysterious ways some of which MAY involve other faiths leading to eternal salvation.
All I can do as an individual is live as good a life as possible within my own beliefs and try to positively influence those around me.
Being a simple soul I look at it this way.
All religions believe in a superior force. For convenience let us call the superior force God.
Three major religions Christianity, Judaism and Islam have the Old Testament, particularly the Ten Commandments, as common ground. They also all acknowledge the existence of Jesus Christ. They disagree though as to his significance in the great scheme of things.
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and was crucified and rose again to save us and He is therefore the way to eternal life for me.
However God works in mysterious ways some of which MAY involve other faiths leading to eternal salvation.
All I can do as an individual is live as good a life as possible within my own beliefs and try to positively influence those around me.
Ma A, Mid A 65 -72
- Rory
- Deputy Grecian
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:17 am
- Real Name: Rory FT
- Location: Shanghai
Always good to have a religious debate. (better than a religious war anyway) - I think that going back to the opener - if you believe in 1 and 2, its difficult to believe in No. 3.
Whilst I have 'respect' for the religion of others, that doesn't necessarily mean you believe in them. However having said that, I think that many other religions (other than Christianity) have the same basic tenets although are presented in culturally different terms. I'm not saying that they are the same - but I sometimes think that whoever gets to Heaven may find a surprise there .....
What really winds me up is those who use their version of christianity to damn all people who don't believe EXACTLY what they do. People who are intolerant and 'shout louder' than everyone else.
Mid A 15's last comment
In China there is the official Catholic Church (recognised by the government but not affiliated to the pope) and the underground catholic church (not allowed by the government but loyal to the pope...)
Who's to say one is better than the other. The point is - you worship in your own way because you believe in God. In my book - respect for all people goes a long way.
Whilst I have 'respect' for the religion of others, that doesn't necessarily mean you believe in them. However having said that, I think that many other religions (other than Christianity) have the same basic tenets although are presented in culturally different terms. I'm not saying that they are the same - but I sometimes think that whoever gets to Heaven may find a surprise there .....
What really winds me up is those who use their version of christianity to damn all people who don't believe EXACTLY what they do. People who are intolerant and 'shout louder' than everyone else.
Mid A 15's last comment
is one I like to use - I'm not very good at it but I think you can show you are a Christian by your example and how you try to live.....Mid A 15 wrote:All I can do as an individual is live as good a life as possible within my own beliefs and try to positively influence those around me.
In China there is the official Catholic Church (recognised by the government but not affiliated to the pope) and the underground catholic church (not allowed by the government but loyal to the pope...)
Who's to say one is better than the other. The point is - you worship in your own way because you believe in God. In my book - respect for all people goes a long way.
-
- Button Grecian
- Posts: 1287
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:55 pm
- Real Name: Barbara Borgars
- Location: close de Saffend
I was raised as a Christian, first by Roman Catholic nuns, then at CH. I studied comparative religion, as a hobby, both at CH and after, and in my travels world-wide have come into contact with many religions, both mainstream and minority.
I no longer label myself as a Christian, or indeed of any other faith - I prefer the term Spiritual. As an intellectual , I recognise the existence of a superior being, a cosmic force, a god/God if you will. However, whilst recognising the validity of the precepts of the main religions and their differing names for the deity and credos, I cannot accept that there is more than one God/Supreme Being, as the concept of a cosmic "Yalta" is riduculous.
For me it therefore follows that there is only one Supreme Being, no matter what name He is given or in which way He is worshipped, and all religious strifes or arguments are devoid of any sense or meaning, since all religions, when followed sincerely, logically lead to the same fount.
This is why I also think that all governments should be totally laical.
I no longer label myself as a Christian, or indeed of any other faith - I prefer the term Spiritual. As an intellectual , I recognise the existence of a superior being, a cosmic force, a god/God if you will. However, whilst recognising the validity of the precepts of the main religions and their differing names for the deity and credos, I cannot accept that there is more than one God/Supreme Being, as the concept of a cosmic "Yalta" is riduculous.
For me it therefore follows that there is only one Supreme Being, no matter what name He is given or in which way He is worshipped, and all religious strifes or arguments are devoid of any sense or meaning, since all religions, when followed sincerely, logically lead to the same fount.
This is why I also think that all governments should be totally laical.
Hertford - 5s/2s - 63-70
" I wish I were what I was when I wanted to be what I am now..."
" I wish I were what I was when I wanted to be what I am now..."
-
- Deputy Grecian
- Posts: 467
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:27 pm
- Real Name: No really, it is Hendrik.
- Location: Bad Ischl, Austria
- Contact:
i fail to see how you can think that your faith is the only right one, yet also acknowledge it may be wrong. i.e. 2 and 3 seem mutually exclusive.
(unless you are saying that if there is any plausible religion at all, it is yours, and if yours isn't right then the others are most certainly even more wrong. which pretty much comes to the same thing, but with the acknowledgement that atheists may have a point[ ])
most religions claim to be the right one, the only right one. the only right one, which if you don't follow then [insert cosmic threat here].
isn't this inherently fascist? a point i have often pondered...
(unless you are saying that if there is any plausible religion at all, it is yours, and if yours isn't right then the others are most certainly even more wrong. which pretty much comes to the same thing, but with the acknowledgement that atheists may have a point[ ])
most religions claim to be the right one, the only right one. the only right one, which if you don't follow then [insert cosmic threat here].
isn't this inherently fascist? a point i have often pondered...
- englishangel
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 6956
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:22 pm
- Real Name: Mary Faulkner (Vincett)
- Location: Amersham, Buckinghamshire
I was brought up in a Christian (Baptist) home but no longer have a religion. I would call myself a humanist I suppose.
However I do wonder sometimes.
My Dad read me a letter he had received from an old friend.
She is a lady in her late sixties with a mild learning difficulty, and a deep Christian faith.
She had been woken in the early hours of the morning and found two young men in her sitting room 'rummaging' through cupboards and drawers. They told her they were looking for drugs and/or money to buy drugs. She said she had neither. They found her purse in her bag which contained £12, she told them that was all the money she had until her next pension came and she had no savings, then they found a 'Home Mission' box containing £29. She told them they couldn't have it as it was for God's work. They gave her the money back, tidied up and left. All they had taken was a pair of gloves which one of them had put on, she didn't realise for a while that they had been her late father's and reckons that they didn't realise they had taken them.
Talk about the meek inheriting the earth.
However I do wonder sometimes.
My Dad read me a letter he had received from an old friend.
She is a lady in her late sixties with a mild learning difficulty, and a deep Christian faith.
She had been woken in the early hours of the morning and found two young men in her sitting room 'rummaging' through cupboards and drawers. They told her they were looking for drugs and/or money to buy drugs. She said she had neither. They found her purse in her bag which contained £12, she told them that was all the money she had until her next pension came and she had no savings, then they found a 'Home Mission' box containing £29. She told them they couldn't have it as it was for God's work. They gave her the money back, tidied up and left. All they had taken was a pair of gloves which one of them had put on, she didn't realise for a while that they had been her late father's and reckons that they didn't realise they had taken them.
Talk about the meek inheriting the earth.
"If a man speaks, and there isn't a woman to hear him, is he still wrong?"