Uniform

[Foureyes]

I am currently writing a history of Housey dress and would be most grateful if anyone can answer any of the following questions, please:
1. Wartime 'Civil' Outfit (i.e., brown tweed jacket, grey shorts, grey socks). When was this introduced and when was it phased out?
2. Broadie buckles. In the 1950s these were passed down by leavers and there were seldon enough to go round. It appears that they are now issued by C.H. When did this take place and at what level does a pupil now become eleigible to wear a broadie girdle and buckle?
3. Plates. In the 1950s plates (i.e., RMS and RAF Foundation) were NOT worn by Grecians, but now are. When did this change take place?
4. Girdles. At some stage it has become fashionable to wear girdles with the buckles at the back. When did this start?
5. Bands. It used to be that bands were pinned to each other and to the shirt collar by a safety pin, and 'fudge bands,' if detected, were a cause of derision. Today the bands are pre-assembled - when did this change take place?
Any help will be much appreciated.
David

[AKAP]

David

I was at Horsham 65-72.
We had band pins when I arrived and button in bands when I left. If I had to put a date on the change I would say 1970.

We also had to buy our own Broadie buckles.

Andrew

[AndrewH]

I started in 1970, and only ever had the pre-assembled button in bands. I remember a few older boys still had the type that required two pins.

We often used to pin the button in bands to the inside of the coat collar, which helped if you were not wearing the issued shirt.....

[J.R.]

I, (my Mother), bought my broadie buckle from someone employed by the school.

It is hall-marked silver and I still have it.

Had my GD got into the 'sixth' form intake, it was my intention to present her with it. As it is, it'll remain in my box of 'memories' upstairs.

[sejintenej]

In 1954 buckles could be handed down but if you were not given one you needed to buy it. The system was the same in 1961 when I left; I had to buy one but I handed mine on.

[DavidRawlins]

Barnes Wallis, when he was Treasurer, introduced the button bands. Decadent.

[postwarblue]

I joined CH in the Prep in September 1946 and at that time Prep, LF & LE were in the 'civvie' kit as you refer to it. 47-48 I was LF and in Sep.1948 I went up into LE and into a bluecoat - the first year it extended down to LE. Next year UF and I was able to cadge a Broadie buckle off the (OB) husband of a cousin of mine. Later in that school year (49-50) they became available in the Tuck Shop at 5/- each. I still have mine. I was enrolled RMS as a 'volunteer' in 1953 but in 1954 got my buttons and down came the plaque. btw in those days Grecians' cuffs were always worn unbuttoned. That's something else which has changed (see avatar).

[michael scuffil]

In the late 50s you could buy a broadie buckle, but some houses at least had a store of hand-me-downs of a whole range of designs. If you had one of these, you were expected to hand it down when you left. Though by the time I left (1963), there was little demand, as most people bought new ones of standard design (for 30/- in 1963). As a result, I suppose many old ones were simply kept by their last wearers. (The old buckles, though not standard, were all much thinner than the new ones, about 3mm instead of about 7mm as now; but they had an antique patina, which I thought looked better.)

(Don't forget the Travers (Travis?) buckle for excellence in mathematics. One was awarded annually, and meant that the recipient didn't have to buy a buckle. It was (is?) unique in being the only (officially sanctioned) individual distinction worn with the uniform.)

As for plates, I think you are not quite right. RMS plates could not be worn with Grecians' coats for historical reasons*, but RAF plates could and were. (I don't know about the other plates, there were at least three.) The RAF plates were of course a new thing, the foundation only dated from 1953 or so; I don't know who was the first button grecian to wear one, but it couldn't in the nature of things have been much before 1960 (in which case it may have been Graham Riches, son of the Coleridge matron; he certainly did).
*(The RMS in London was a school within a school; to become a Grecian, you had to leave it and join the Grammar School.)

It would be interesting to know when it became fashionable to wear your buckle at the back. Only in the last 20 years or so, I imagine. In my day, some people wore their girdles very low. For grecians this was considered ok, but others had to be careful of social disapproval (it was seen as an affectation). On the other hand, only nerds wore their girdles at the waist-line. 2-3 inches below was the norm, up to 6 inches for grecians.

Wearing breeches knee-buttons undone was another affectation. But this was officially forbidden.

The problem with "fudge bands" was that they weren't attached to anything. Hence someone with malicious intent could snatch them and run away with them. Arthur Rider referred to them as "fobbed bands" (an expression I never otherwise heard). But he was the only master who seemed to take an interest in the matter enough to reprimand the culprit. This was normally a monitorial matter.

[John Knight]

Wearing breeches knee-buttons undone was another affectation. But this was officially forbidden.

Well, if that was officially forbidden... I find it hard to understand why wearing the girdle with the buckle at the back was not forbidden also.
As I have said before, if you have to wear a uniform it should be worn correctly. I would like to see a bit of dress discipline introduced at CH if only as a show of respect to those who have gone before.

[Foureyes]

1. michaelscuffil writes: "...I don't know about the other plates, there were at least three." Presumably this refers to pre-1963 times? My impression on plates is that up to 1953 there was just the one plate for the RMS (which had admitedly, absorbed two other plates, but over a century earlier). Then came the Barnes Wallis plate. But what were the others?
2. "Travers buckle." Is that still awarded?
3. "buckles at the back." This seems to have crept in at some time in the 70s or 80s as a protest against uniformity. I have it on good authority that some pupils are now wearing their buckles at the front as a protest against the uniformity of wearing them at the back! (Don't ask me to explain that, because I can't!)

[Katharine]

As I have said before, if you have to wear a uniform it should be worn correctly. I would like to see a bit of dress discipline introduced at CH if only as a show of respect to those who have gone before.

I remember teaching at a school in London with a fairly ordinary uniform. The headmistress was adamant we should keep the uniform as by "kicking against it" (her expression) it saved on graffiti and other expressions of individuality. Perhaps at CH it could be made clear that on occasions such as St Matthew's Day complete uniformity would be enforced, without mentioning day to day.

[michael scuffil]

Wearing breeches knee-buttons undone was another affectation. But this was officially forbidden.

Well, if that was officially forbidden... I find it hard to understand why wearing the girdle with the buckle at the back was not forbidden also.
As I have said before, if you have to wear a uniform it should be worn correctly. I would like to see a bit of dress discipline introduced at CH if only as a show of respect to those who have gone before.

You don't need to forbid something that no one does. And in the 60s, no one wore their buckle at the back.

[michael scuffil]

1. michaelscuffil writes: "...I don't know about the other plates, there were at least three." Presumably this refers to pre-1963 times? My impression on plates is that up to 1953 there was just the one plate for the RMS (which had admitedly, absorbed two other plates, but over a century earlier). Then came the Barnes Wallis plate. But what were the others?

There was the Oliver Whitby Foundation (Chichester boys), and Stone's, and Stock's. The first was fairly numerous. The others may have been merged together, but I think not. Certainly they accounted for no more than four boys all told, and one of them had a plate that was uniquely worn on the right shoulder.

[DavidRawlins]

One innovation appears to be wearing two buckles on a broadie girdle. How long has this been going on?

[michael scuffil]

There was the Oliver Whitby Foundation (Chichester boys), and Stone's, and Stock's. The first was fairly numerous. The others may have been merged together, but I think not. Certainly they accounted for no more than four boys all told, and one of them had a plate that was uniquely worn on the right shoulder.

For an example of a right-shoulder plate, see

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=747

3rd boy from right, bottom row, in the Lamb B 53 (?) picture.