Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

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robert totterdell
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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by robert totterdell » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:36 pm

Hi All

My point was simple - there is no statute law now requiring a teacher to report another teacher (or person) within a school to anyone at all other than what is in their contract of employment which in itself is not 'legally' binding in terms of statute or criminal law - in other words it is Civil Law and not Criminal Law.

Please don't have an argument on this (late or not) just understand that as a victim I could not request that Basil Gregory or Ron Lorrimer should be prosecuted (yes I know they are dead - I am trying to make a point on law) as there is no law requiring them to do anything concerning 'abuse' of any sort.

Simples!

Going to change this though - trust me!

Rob
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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by bakunin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:51 pm

Lorrimer (and Gregory who is unfamiliar to me) were abusers?

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by Mid A 15 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:07 pm

bakunin wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:51 pm
Lorrimer (and Gregory who is unfamiliar to me) were abusers?
That's not what Robert is saying.

The point he is making is that in law there is apparently no statutory duty for a teacher to report abuse regardless of what the contract of employment may or may not state.

He is suggesting that Ron Lorimer and BS Gregory were or could have been aware of abuse committed that they did not report and stating that there is no legal redress available against them even if they were still alive.

Ron Lorimer and Basil Gregory were Senior Housemasters of both houses I was in when I was at CH. As a consequence I knew both men well and find it hard to believe that they would not have acted if they were aware of abuse taking place at the time.

However that is another debate and does not detract from the point Robert is making.
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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by michael scuffil » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:45 am

There used to be a common-law crime called 'misprision of felony' (i.e. failure to report a felony of which you had knowledge). It was abolished in 1967 (mainly because it was very hard to prove). I don't know whether an indecent assault on a child (short of rape) was a felony; I doubt it, and there was no such crime as 'misprision of misdemeanour'. In any case you had to have knowledge, not just suspicion.

Over the years, certain misprisions have been reinstated by specific statutes. Thus it is a crime not to report preparations for an act of terrorism of which you have knowledge. I don't know what the situation is regarding child abuse now.

In Germany where I live the relevant laws are much hedged about with provisos (in reaction to recent history). Thus no one can be prosecuted for not reporting a crime they knew had been committed by a close relative, and priests, journalists, doctors and lawyers are generally exempt from reporting crimes which people have confessed to them in their professional capacity.
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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by robert totterdell » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:57 pm

Scuffil & Mid A 15 are both right - but firstly both Basil Gregory and Ron Lorrimer knew what Burr was up to Which is why Gregory got me to change my desired senior house to Mid A. Secondly there is now law in this country and it is correct to say that in some countries where there is it is surrounded by provisos. However, in many it is not - Germany tends to surround many of its laws with provisos due to its historical past.

Perhaps more important is COULD other masters afford to report abuse? Gregory & Lorrimer lived at the school and had nowhere else to go - it was their income and their home. Perhaps they just couldn't say anything to safeguard themselves and their livelihoods.

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:44 pm

robert totterdell wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:57 pm
Scuffil & Mid A 15 are both right - but firstly both Basil Gregory and Ron Lorrimer knew what Burr was up to Which is why Gregory got me to change my desired senior house to Mid A. Secondly there is now law in this country and it is correct to say that in some countries where there is it is surrounded by provisos. However, in many it is not - Germany tends to surround many of its laws with provisos due to its historical past.

Perhaps more important is COULD other masters afford to report abuse? Gregory & Lorrimer lived at the school and had nowhere else to go - it was their income and their home. Perhaps they just couldn't say anything to safeguard themselves and their livelihoods.
Can you expand on your assertions please, and why they would have feared retribution, presumably from Newsome?

I found Ron a dull geography teacher, but a decent enough fellow.

But what do I know?

They're all dead now, so no need to fear libel

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by jtaylor » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:53 pm

They're all dead now, so no need to fear libel
Agreed, but also let’s be careful to avoid any guesswork, supposition or potential offence to relatives/families.
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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:19 pm

CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:44 pm
robert totterdell wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:57 pm
Scuffil & Mid A 15 are both right - but firstly both Basil Gregory and Ron Lorrimer knew what Burr was up to Which is why Gregory got me to change my desired senior house to Mid A. Secondly there is now law in this country and it is correct to say that in some countries where there is it is surrounded by provisos. However, in many it is not - Germany tends to surround many of its laws with provisos due to its historical past.

Perhaps more important is COULD other masters afford to report abuse? Gregory & Lorrimer lived at the school and had nowhere else to go - it was their income and their home. Perhaps they just couldn't say anything to safeguard themselves and their livelihoods.
Can you expand on your assertions please, and why they would have feared retribution, presumably from Newsome?

I found Ron a dull geography teacher, but a decent enough fellow.

But what do I know?

They're all dead now, so no need to fear libel
I agree with Julian's point.

I have also been advised by a lawyer friend that you should still report, if you havent already, what you know as might be useful to the police for intelligence reasons

So best not to expand on here.

I'm uncomfortable when it comes to the dead who can't give their side, particularly the recently deceased

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by TMF » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:29 pm

Gregory was, of course, a great corporal punishment 'enthusiast':
http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 6&#p126246
http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 47&h#p4247
(among many historical references on this site...)

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:35 pm

TMF wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:29 pm
Gregory was, of course, a great corporal punishment 'enthusiast':
http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 6&#p126246
http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 47&h#p4247
(among many historical references on this site...)
Are you trying to make a point?

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by bakunin » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:47 pm

An enthusiasm for corporal punishment implies a certain attitude to children and life in general, a lack of respect for their humanity which may lead to inertia or turning a blind eye when rumours of other forms of abuse surface...
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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by graham » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 pm

CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:44 pm

I found Ron a dull geography teacher, but a decent enough fellow.

I had Lorimer for geography on my squits - he retired the following year I believe - and my abiding memory is of the racist comments constantly made towards my two black classmates.
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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by DazedandConfused » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:41 pm

Which is why Gregory got me to change my desired senior house to Mid A.
Robert, would you mind elaborating on that if you can do so within the guidelines of this forum? Was Mid A a ‘safer’ house?

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by LHA » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:07 pm

graham wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 pm
CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:44 pm

I found Ron a dull geography teacher, but a decent enough fellow.

I had Lorimer for geography on my squits - he retired the following year I believe - and my abiding memory is of the racist comments constantly made towards my two black classmates.
Jeepers. I suppose they are both meant to be 'forever grateful' too.

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Re: Why a teacher DOES NOT have to report abuse

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:26 pm

LHA wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:07 pm
graham wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 pm
CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:44 pm

I found Ron a dull geography teacher, but a decent enough fellow.

I had Lorimer for geography on my squits - he retired the following year I believe - and my abiding memory is of the racist comments constantly made towards my two black classmates.
Jeepers. I suppose they are both meant to be 'forever grateful' too.
Jeepers, I'm grateful for the non sequitor

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