Hertford Uniforms

Share your memories and stories from the Hertford Christ's Hospital School, which closed in 1985, when the two schools integrated to the Horsham site....

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Foureyes
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Hertford Uniforms

Post by Foureyes »

HELP, PLEASE!!

I am doing research into Bluecoat uniforms; i.e., not just Housie but all bluecoat schools (80-plus, so far).
I am trying to find descriptions and pictures of C.H. Hertford girls in their formal uniforms, but am having a lot of difficulty. Can anyone help at all, please?

What I am looking for is a description of the major versions, when and why they changed and, wherever possible, a good quality picture of individual girls (not group pictures and, if possibe, in colour) in the various rigs. There does not appear to be any such work in the Library or the Museum at Horsham, but perhaps someone can direct me to where this information might be found, please.

:shock:
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by Angela Woodford »

Foureyes, if you go into Hertford Memories - Munch's Father's Colour Slides - the no 1 pic is (I'm afraid) me, newly put into Summer Uniform on Day 1 at CH, August 1964.

Throughout the collection there are a few uniform variations, but that one's a straight-up-and-down effort.

(My parents made me wear it to Church the first Sunday I got back home. The congregation diplomatically made no comment. Oh, for something smart and distinctive! :roll: )

Elsewhere, I'm sure that there are some good coatfrock pictures - in my opinion the best look the girls ever had. Didn't we have a debate about whether a panama or a velour should be worn with a coatfrock?
Last edited by Angela Woodford on Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by mvgrogan »

I'll have to rummage, but I should have some from 1980s - the last hertford girl's uniforms. I'm sure I have some everyday and Sunday with cherry red blazers.
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by Fjgrogan »

Maria, I am not sure whether you have it or I, but there is one somewhere or me in a coatfrock, standing by the Bentley - for the uninitiated my father was a chauffeur! Also one of me in Sixes doorway around late 50s. Also Maria and Isobel Bird taken on their confirmation day in some sort of blue pinafore dress plus a veil! I shall have a rummage when I get home - I am due to be decluttered anyway - I am currently sunning myself on the Med - Medway, that is, or possibly Mudway?
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by englishangel »

Foureyes wrote: I am bewildered by the changes of dress - and, indeed, why they were changed. I recall the girls in 1953 in what I thought was an elegant outfit in navy blue with gold piping - why did that change? I have also heard ex-Hertford girls talk with a degree of awe about a "black apron" - obviously, I realise that it was an apron coloured black, but I don't have the slightest idea why it was so important. Surely, someone must have written up the matter of dress at Hertford?

The sort of pics I am looking for are the forme/informal frontal shots, showing the formal uniform only (not PT or working dress), like that at #1 on Much's album, but, hopefully, without the drainpipe.
Over our everyday uniform (navy gymslip and blue blouse in winter and candy-striped dress in summer) we would wear a blue pinafore, like a tabard effect, same shape front and back for meals cleaning (trades), etc., in year 11 (O level year, age 15/16) if you behaved yourself you were awarded a black apron (BA) which was, as you surmise, literally that, a skirt at the front with a bib and straps which crossed and buttoned to the waistband at the back. This gave you rights (and responsibilities), like being able to go into the library at break times and (much more importantly) go for a walk in 3's without a member of staff. The next step was to be made a monitress, depending on how many Upper Sixth in the house, some Lower Sixth could be made Mons, which gave you a green apron and you could go into town on your own.

These garments were also worn on a Sunday for meals over the Sunday best (No1's, also worn on St Matts Day and Speech Day etc), which was quite different from the everyday wear, right down to the shoes (black on Sunday and brown during the week, enclosed shoes in winter and sandals in the summer).

I think SWMNBN (a fearsome needlework teacher, who also oversaw the uniform) was trying to keep us up to date and also fit the uniform to the many shapes and sizes of girls. Result, 20 years out-of date and flattering no-one.
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by sejintenej »

There were some of the uniforms at the Hertford Museum for the special exhibition on CH girls - perhaps they still have the exhibits and photos somewhere. There is a thread about the event
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by anniexf »

To be fair to SWMNBN, I doubt if she had more than a minimal budget for uniforms. We girls had very little spent on us, so I imagine that the matter of updating our uniforms would have received even less consideration than the quality and adequacy of the teaching staff.

Back to the topic: When did the green apron appear? It must have been post-1959. Summer sandals? Wow! We had brown lace-ups all year round. Imagine those with brown cotton socks and the cheapest, tattiest imitation-tartan-effect-patched-until-the-patches-almost-met, bluish, faded cotton dresses of variable length. Black shoes on Sundays? ISTR a "best" brown lace-up shoe. Best, gold-piped blazers on Sundays; if you got your colours for a sport you had a school-crest badge ( which you had to pay for & sew on yourself), otherwise no blazer-badge. Weekday blazers were threadbare, baggy & saggy, piping gold-ish but ancient. Panama hats in summer, velours in winter (both only for best), otherwise the school cap with crest for chapel or on walks.
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by englishangel »

I think the GA appeared around 1962, I think Katharine mentioned it somewhere.

By 1965 we had breast pocket badges on decent navy blazers with gold piping for everyday. I think summer 1966 was the first summer we had sandals.

Why the uniform changed so frequently I have no idea if there was a shortage of money.
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by anniexf »

englishangel wrote: Why the uniform changed so frequently I have no idea if there was a shortage of money.
The only changes in my time, I think, were the Ward-by Ward replacement of white calico nighties with sprig-print Vyella, in about 1957 (I believe they were made in-school but not by us girls, though given the variable quality of stitching they could have been!)); the gradual introduction of " modern" (but salmon-pink!) bras - the type that had back-fastenings - at roughly the same time; and a change (for 6th. Form only) from the navy gymslip to skirt & blouse, late 1959.

Perhaps it was financially more practical to phase in changes as older-style uniforms became worn-out, patched to destruction etc.; I can't recall a wholesale, whole school change overnight from one type to the next.
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by Katharine »

There were a whole lot of changes in my time. The GA came in very early in my time, it may have been my first or second year but not later than that so about 1960. The VI form panama came in which quickly went down to everyone. This had a narrower brim, and just a blue and yellow ribbon, which meant the Mons lost their distinctive third stripe on the panama. (can't remember if it had a badge as well) Blazer badges for everyone came in too, at first just on the Sunday best blazers until the ones without wore out. I can remember seniors complaining about these changes "just as I qualified for a blazer badge, everyone got one" sort of muttering! BAs had silk stockings for Sundays and these changed to 60 denier nylons - one single pair of these lasted me three years - they were so strong. Lisle stockings were replaced by the ribbed nylon ones - but that was in about 63 I think. The stripey summer dresses came in too - the "Zephyrs'' were still around when I started, and quite coveted. At first I think there were just three colours of stripes but each year it seemed as if they had new bolts of fabric and you could see all sorts of them. Very occasionally someone had a dress that was an experimental one and a one-off, never me!

The biggest change was the Sunday uniform, when the loved coatfrocks and hideous yellow dresses went. I think that was 63. They were replaced by the grey dresses and that was a change for everyone at the same time.

Kerren lived through all the changes that I did, Frances through most of them.
Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by Foureyes »

anniexf wrote:
The only changes in my time, I think, were the Ward-by Ward replacement of white calico nighties with sprig-print Vyella, in about 1957... the gradual introduction of " modern" (but salmon-pink!) bras - the type that had back-fastenings....
Gosh! When I asked for information on Hertford dress I never dreamt that it would lead to such intimacies! As to back-fastening bras - ah, memories! memories!

:shock: :oops:
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by Angela Woodford »

So you're more accustomed to encountering front fastening bras, Foureyes?

And... we haven't even started on blues with winter sort-of-mesh linings and summer linings and vests and self-supplied suspender belts and the school white broderie anglaise Berlei bra!
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by englishangel »

It's a pity our memories of these garments aren't downloadable like memory card, no-one actually seems to have any photos.
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by Foureyes »

I used to be in the Arny, where every Corps and regiment had its own uniform (or, perhaps more accurately, its own variations on the same uniform). These were laid down in a document named "Dress Regulations" where every item and variation was described in words and illustrated with either a photograph or a drawing. This enabled both members of the Army to see what they ought to be wearing and contractors to know precisely what it was that they had to produce.
I would be astonished if C.H. Horsham and C.H. Hertford did not have similar documents, updated as necessary over the years. Presumably, this would have been held by the Counting House, where it would have been used as the basis for placing contracts.
:shock:
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Re: Hertford Uniforms

Post by englishangel »

Off topic (as usual)

My son has many books illustrating all these variations both of British Uniforms and others stretching back hundreds of years.

At the War and Peace show some years ago (http://www.warandpeaceshow.co.uk/) there was a retired Colonel selling his book which was the definitve current uniforms/decorations book on the Army. I was going to buy it but it was £68.00 and I was a bit short at the time.
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