Question for the ladies.........

[DavebytheSea]

I long ago shrugged off any concerns I had on this score and now mix Christian names with the best of them, writing to Prime Ministers, Bishops, County Councillors and Peers of the realm with "Dear Tony" etc.!

Great! In that case I challenge you to write a letter starting "Dear Liz" to you-know-who. Meanwhile, I will check on the visiting hours in the Tower of London.

Touché, David! I am hoist by my own petard! I surrender!

[Katharine]

What I detest and abhor more than anything else is people who only look at the start of my name and not at all of it, Katharine is the spelling closest to the classical Greek, as my Old Blue Dad informed me.

Thank God I edited my spelling the other day!

Thank you for that simple courtesy, something which was drubbed into me at a certain Religious, Royal and Ancient Foundation.

How long ago did it become Ancient?

[DavebytheSea]

The salutation (is that the word?) in the letter could be Dear Mrs Dobson or Dear Katharine. This does not answer the original query when you do not know the marital status, personally I would go with the given name or Dear Madam, which shows that you do understand the recipient is female.

Indeed, madam!

We were distinctly taught that "Dear Madam" was used for a lady when "Dear Sir" would have been an appropriate salutation for a man - that is to say, when writing to a tradesman. Such a letter would terminate with "Yours faithfully" as opposed to "Yours sincerely" which was the correct form when the salutation carried a name. Professionals (e.g . doctors, lawyers, teachers etc.), would be addressed by name and the letter would terminate with "Yours sincerely" even if you were suing the ba**ard. This is because professionals were reckoned to be gentlemen, whereas tradesmen (butchers, builders, grocers etc) were not.

It is possible that there is an exception to the rule about "Madam" when those of a certain intimacy address themselves to the personage reffered to by David Miller. I confess I do not know how the letter should then end.

[sejintenej]

To answer the original question, I try to avoid writing to women as much as possible, but have usually found the best form of address, is, 'To Whom It May Concern'.

Unless the letter is one which can be hawked around (such as an employment reference) I would find that highly offensive. As writer you should work out to whom you are writing and address that person accordingly. Yes, how top address a woman is difficult; I have seen Dear Miss/Mrs which is far better than the letter sent to me (with first name) addressed Dear Sir/Madam

[DavebytheSea]

Unless the letter is one which can be hawked around (such as an employment reference) I would find that highly offensive. As writer you should work out to whom you are writing and address that person accordingly. Yes, how top address a woman is difficult; I have seen Dear Miss/Mrs which is far better than the letter sent to me (with first name) addressed Dear Sir/Madam

Absolutely! I concur wholeheartedly!

[DavebytheSea]

Yes, how top address a woman is difficult

......... and to address her bottom is even more complicated?

[englishangel]

For myself I agree with Katharine, but was also taught as the elderly lady that a wife is addressed by her husband's initials, a widow by her own. I would write to my own mother with her initials and I think she would be a bit put out if addressed by my father's.

We also had our school reports posted home at the end of term and had to address the envelopes to our father's with Esq. e.g. S J Vincett Esq.
Very pretentious I think.

[DavebytheSea]

For myself I agree with Katharine, but was also taught as the elderly lady that a wife is addressed by her husband's initials, a widow by her own. I would write to my own mother with her initials and I think she would be a bit put out if addressed by my father's.

We also had our school reports posted home at the end of term and had to address the envelopes to our father's with Esq. e.g. S J Vincett Esq.
Very pretentious I think.

Not at all, Mary. I still do it as a mark of respect. As I have written above, the envelope should be addressed with care - it is more public than the letter inside and should be carefully and respectfully inscribed - "Mr" inside and "Esq." outside unless you are writing to a tradfesman.

[englishangel]

I once read that only lawyers should be addressed Esq. but my trusty OED says "title added to a man's surname when no other title is used especially as a form of address for letters."

Of course when you read the lists of Boards of Directors or the Stewards at a racecourse they are usually Esq. too.

[UserRemovedAccount]

We also had our school reports posted home at the end of term and had to address the envelopes to our father's with Esq. e.g. S J Vincett Esq.

To which part of your father (see underlining) did you have to address the envelope? Or did you mean "...our fathers..."?

[Euterpe13]

My attitude to how I wish to be addressed has changed over the years - when first married I was glad to be Mme. Bonnet ( I was innocent/naive enough to think that being married gave me status ...[sigh]).

When I remarried I refused to take my husbands name ( I am not a chattel which has been bought) and retained my maiden name ( which was good enough for my father and good enough for me).

So , I am now Barbara Borgars - BUT , I am not Mrs. Borgars ( that is my mother) or Miss Borgars ( bit long in the tooth for that) - and Ms. is very silly - I prefer BB . Of course, in Spain I'm Señora, which indicates age rather than marital status, since spanish women do not take their husband's name.

I tend to write to other women ( including customers) using only their name, unless I am addressing " M. et Mme. Untel".
B.

[englishangel]

We also had our school reports posted home at the end of term and had to address the envelopes to our father's with Esq. e.g. S J Vincett Esq.

To which part of your father (see underlining) did you have to address the envelope? Or did you mean "...our fathers..."?

Of course I meant 'our fathers' apologies for the errant apostrophe.

I have 'Eats Shoots and Leaves' on the desk as well as the OED. Also have the Economist style handbookand Bill Bryson's book somewhere, but not within immediate reach.

[englishangel]

I married straight from university and went nursing.

On honeymoon when addressed as Mr and Mrs Faulkner we looked round for Mum and Dad (doesn't everyone?)

When I started nursing it was as Nurse Faulkner and had to be addressed several times before I realised who Sister was talking to.

Now Mrs Faulkner only to children's teachers, Mary Faulkner to everyone else. Mrs M C Faulkner on envelopes.

I think the Spanish idea is a very good one. Doesn't most of Europe do that, frau is woman and fraulein is young woman, very sensible.

(also have German and French dictionaries to hand, and Encyclopaedia Britannica but that is another story)

[Great Plum]

I object to some of the previous ideas on this matter.

Forget the Mistress and Lesbian soubriquet Plum.

NEITHER of our daughters are married. Our eldest has lived with her partner for well over 14 years and refers to herself as Ms. She would certainly object to being referred to as a 'Mistress', and she certainly isn't a lesbian.

Both their daughters have take the surname of Rutley-Stent, retaining our name as their first surname and their Fathers for the second. This name regularly appears within the sports pages of our local news-paper.

To answer the original question, I try to avoid writing to women as much as possible, but have usually found the best form of address, is, 'To Whom It May Concern'.

Apolgies if I caused offence JR...

I still find Ms a horrible title...

[J.R.]

I object to some of the previous ideas on this matter.

Forget the Mistress and Lesbian soubriquet Plum.

NEITHER of our daughters are married. Our eldest has lived with her partner for well over 14 years and refers to herself as Ms. She would certainly object to being referred to as a 'Mistress', and she certainly isn't a lesbian.

Both their daughters have take the surname of Rutley-Stent, retaining our name as their first surname and their Fathers for the second. This name regularly appears within the sports pages of our local news-paper.

To answer the original question, I try to avoid writing to women as much as possible, but have usually found the best form of address, is, 'To Whom It May Concern'.

Apolgies if I caused offence JR...

I still find Ms a horrible title........

No offence at all Matt. I dislike it as much as you, and Sir John Mortimer. 'Mizz Lix Probert of Chambers, a la 'Rumpole' fame

However, eldest daughter is highly independent, and like some female posters on here, does NOT consider herself property of her partner. Their children, however, have been granted the right to bare both their parents names, which I think is nice, even if it does take them slightly longer to sign autographs after matches !!