Politics

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, and is NON CH related - chat about the weather, or anything else that takes your fancy.

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michael scuffil
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Re: Politics

Post by michael scuffil » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:22 am

doublethink
'is the act of holding, simultaneously, two opposite, individually exclusive ideas or opinions and believing in both simultaneously and absolutely'.

Mrs May is giving us a splendid example at the moment. You may think leaving the EU Customs Union and Mrs Thatcher's Single Market is a good thing, or you may think 'frictionless trade' with the EU is a good thing. I won't argue that point. But to believe both at once is 'doublethink' in the pristine Orwellian sense.

People confuse 'a free trade agreement' with the customs union. But even if you want the former (Moggie and his friends don't, of course) it will only apply to goods originating in the EU/UK (otherwise third-country goods can sneak in -- either way -- by the back door). But to avoid the problem of third-country goods, there will have to be border checks, which by definition is not 'frictionless trade'. And these, with the associated paperwork, will cost money which we could give to the NHS instead.
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Mid A 15
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Re: Politics

Post by Mid A 15 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:18 am

michael scuffil wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:22 am
doublethink
'is the act of holding, simultaneously, two opposite, individually exclusive ideas or opinions and believing in both simultaneously and absolutely'.

Mrs May is giving us a splendid example at the moment. You may think leaving the EU Customs Union and Mrs Thatcher's Single Market is a good thing, or you may think 'frictionless trade' with the EU is a good thing. I won't argue that point. But to believe both at once is 'doublethink' in the pristine Orwellian sense.

People confuse 'a free trade agreement' with the customs union. But even if you want the former (Moggie and his friends don't, of course) it will only apply to goods originating in the EU/UK (otherwise third-country goods can sneak in -- either way -- by the back door). But to avoid the problem of third-country goods, there will have to be border checks, which by definition is not 'frictionless trade'. And these, with the associated paperwork, will cost money which we could give to the NHS instead.
Nobody said it would be easy.

However there does seem a will to make it as difficult and painful as possible.

The 'least worse' option in the short to medium term is to join EFTA. That way perceived economic advantages of the EEA are maintained but politically the UK has more autonomy and is not subject to the ECJ. (I appreciate that in reality there is often common ground between what the ECJ does and EFTA).

Stephen Kinnock, ironically given his parentage, seems to be the only leading politician of all sides to appreciate the advantages of EFTA in order to comply with the democratic wishes of the people with minimum economic disruption.

I cannot help but think that there is a desire amongst the political class to deliberately foul it up so that either we never actually leave or else run back, cap in hand, fully integrated.

Either that or they are incredibly arrogant and incompetent.
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Re: Politics

Post by Mid A 15 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:23 am

I see Michael Scuffil's old housemate has rerimanded Mrs May:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/t ... e74aef0ac4
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michael scuffil
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Re: Politics

Post by michael scuffil » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:56 am

I cannot help but think that there is a desire amongst the political class to deliberately foul it up so that either we never actually leave or else run back, cap in hand, fully integrated.

One can only hope so.

But mainly I would like honesty. 'Frictionless trade' is not compatible with leaving the customs union. The whole point of the customs union is to enable frictionless trade. Even with a free trade agreement, if the UK is not in the customs union, every truck and container has to be checked to ensure its contents originates in the EU/UK. That is not frictionless.

Although it is unglamorous, most UK non-agricultural trade with the EU is in components and semi-finished products. That is why UK exports to Germany have fallen markedly in the past few months, even though they are cheaper because of the fall in sterling. German manufacturers are re-sourcing to eastern Europe because even short delays interfere with production schedules.
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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:05 pm

To avoid answering difficult questions the Maybot has her software engineers implant a new set of platitudes into her brain for every new phase of Brexit. Thus,"Brexit means Brexit" and "A red white and blue Brexit" have long been discarded and I've no doubt a new set of meaningless cliches are already being prepared. The only old favourite which never changes is "Let me be quite clear" which is to her what "Have you ever been tickled missus" is to Ken Dodd.

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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:59 pm

Adding to Michael Scuffil's piece on the customs union, our local paper here is big on potential problems at Dover. We here in Gravesend are at the other end of the county but news from southern Kent often makes the headlines and not for the first time are they having kittens in Dover about the holdups at the port that will ensue, with expectations of mile-on-mile snarl-ups on the M20. They've also been refused permission for a lorry park at Folkestone which wouldn't have been built in time anyway for March 2019, but the whole thing adds up to the impression of the Maybot being completely clueless and merely kicking one can after another down the road. Also I still can't see how the Ireland border problem is going to be solved and I think that the EU just agreed to move on to the next phase in order to try and get some traction into the negotiations hoping that a miracle might turn up later. After 38 years of Thatcherism I didn't think things could possibly get worse but amazingly we've managed it with this stupid referendum. My big hope is that firms like Nissan, Hitachi and Toyota (all in the strong Leave areas) will someday stand up and say: "Losing the single market and customs union will make things economically unviable for us and we're making plans to relocate to the continent." That might eventually cause panic and wake everyone up. Although I've no doubt that diehard Tory leavers will airily claim that we're quite capable of owning and running mass car fleets ourselves even though there is absolutely no evidence for this.

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Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:24 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:59 pm
Also I still can't see how the Ireland border problem is going to be solved and I think that the EU just agreed to move on to the next phase in order to try and get some traction into the negotiations hoping that a miracle might turn up later..
;
Dead easy; anyone found guilty of breaking the rules has to live on the island for the rest of their life - St Kilda Trouble is lefties are too soft and put Britain last.
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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:53 pm

Right on cue with my comments about firms decamping to the EU, up pops the Japanese Ambassador with a warning that if their car companies don't get the single market and the customs union they will have to decamp. Only this chilly, xenophobic, inward-looking little island's proximity to the biggest market in the world is apparently what's keeping them here. We couldn't have been more prescient. Maybe the Japanese Ambassador reads the CH Unofficial website. I wonder what he makes of it.

rockfreak
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Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:24 pm

Yo! Our splinter group Sisters Uncut have just invaded the red carpet at the BAFTAs and held the proceedings up for a while, just as they did at the premiere of Suffragette. So the posh, smooth, privately educated La Lumley had to put her silly speech on hold for a while.

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