I'm an immigrant too!

[Katharine]

I have always known that my mother was Irish born and bred, and the first person in generations to leave the Emerald Isle for training and then life in England. What I didn't know until recently, was that her antecedents came from the Palatine in SW Germany in 1709, Queen Anne helping to provide a Protestant population in Ireland. Her maiden name, now very, very rare in Ireland, is that of one of the 40 or so families that reached County Wexford. Last month there was a special service in Old Ross to mark the tercentenary of their landing, and my aunt sent a cutting about it.

Thanks to the wonders of the internet and Google I managed to find the text of the sermon preached at that service and in this week of Nick Griffin I think it makes excellent reading. see http://revpatrickcomerford.blogspot.com ... xford.html

If my family have been in the British Isles for only 300 years should I be expelled? What about my younger son, born in Islamabad should he be expelled?

Incidentally New Ross, a few miles from Old Ross, is the ancestral home of JFK.

[sejintenej]

Katharine.
I'm not supposed to know it (stupid bureaucrats) but I also am of immigrant stock. My mother came to England from Ireland leaving a brother (stayed in the Republic) and a sister who went to Belfast. Unlike you, members of the family went willingly to Australasia and the Americas as far back as the 1700's. My father was also from Ulster. Go back a bit and on my mother's side the tree goes back to Denmark via Normandy 1066; I suppose being a "frog" I also should be expelled .

More sensibly, a DNA survey of a thousand or more women chosen at random found that they were descendents of just 4 women from Africa; we are all a hotchpotch and we should all go back to the upper Nile and leave the rest of the world empty.

How many people on here have had their DNA read and placed on record?: A friend from work did this and found a distant relative (3 generations distant) in the US mid-west

[loringa]

Me too! The Lorings are Huguenots and my branch of the family effectively emigrated to the American colonies before being kicked out having stayed loyal to the Crown during the war of Independence. My mother's family were Anglo-Irish, most of whom eventually came back to the UK although my maternal Grandfather kept his Irish passport throughout his life. Presumably therefore his forebears must have emigrated originally to Ireland from England or Scotland before coming back. My wife is Australian, her father's from Wigan (ish) and I think her mather's family came from Scotland. However you cut it they certainly can't claim to be Indigenous to Australia! So on all sides of the family we've gone and returned numerous times from many different countries. Surely this must make me a foreigner in the eyes of the loathesome Griffin and his crew; I certainly hope so. Oh, I was born in Malta and have a Maltese birth certificate even if I don't have Maltese citizenship.

[Jude]

I am an immigrant too....
My biological father is Cornish (no comments please!)
My biological mother was born in France, as were my maternal grandmother, however my great grandmother was born in Germany - they were all Jewish - possibly my Great grandfather is Polish - so where would I go to????

[AKAP]

My favourite story of the moment (true or not I don't know) is that the picture of a spitfire that Griffin stood in front of is from a Polish squadron with a Polish pilot.
I don't care if the story is true or not, it succinctly makes the point that immigration (and emigration) from these islands has gone on continually since time immemorial for many and varied reasons (and surprise surprise as they integrate into society they meet and marry within the population). The concept of an indigenous population of the UK can't exist but I don't suppose a racist is too bothered about facts.

[Angela Woodford]

How many people on here have had their DNA read and placed on record?: A friend from work did this and found a distant relative (3 generations distant) in the US mid-west

I had no idea that this could be done on request - having seen a programme ages ago when a woman proud of her "Anglo-Saxon" ancestry was shown to have the DNA of (???) an Eastern European Romany. She was furious! I thought the DNA testing was done just for the programme.

I'd be interested to do the ancestry thing one day - my mother had a very unusual name. It was Peppitt. I've never met or heard of another Peppitt. My father never knew who his father was, so that's one untraceable ancestor.

I love the story of Griffin's Spitfire picture!

Interesting postings here! I'm enjoying it.

[jhopgood]

I wonder how long one has to be in a country before you stop being an immigrant. I live in an area of Spain where the last moors fought before being sent to North Africa in 1609. They had been here some 7 - 800 years. Our village went from 450 people in 1605 down to 22 in 1625 and now we are at 350.
My father's side goes back to a Lady Elizabeth Sharpe in the mid 18th century, so maybe we're ok.
My paternal grandmother, was always considered as Irish but came we believe, from Birmingham. However, Kendling is not a popular name in Ireland, but is a small town in Germany!!!
But quite frankly, I have a problem understanding were these people are coming from, since I have a Costa Rican wife, first boy born in El Salvador, married to a Swedish girl with a British born son and Swedish born daughter, and the other born in Costa Rica, married to a girl from Guadeloupe in the Caribbean, and with an Irish son.
If the BNP gets into power, will I go on the list of troublemakers, like Mark Thomas?
I blame CH.

[Jude]

I don't know what would happen to millions of us in the UK if the BNP got into power - how many generations do you have to have born in the UK (does the BNP hold against Scottish, Welsh and Cornish????) to stay here - the only thing I don't like is that this country is overfull with illegal immigrants who come here because we are too soft & give out benefits to them! I have a friend who is mid 70's, whose pension doesn't amount to very much each week, and then we have a family of illegal immegrants living in a lovely house, all bills paid for, generous food tokens each week (base on the Government stats that each person should eat between £25-£30 of food per week) - my friend and I don't have that amount to spend on food a week, and we have lived, worked and paid taxes here! oh dear - I have got onto my orange box!
:biggun: soapbox:

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

My Family Irish Evans's have been in County Wicklow as Irish Protestants for anout 200 years.

These dam' Coracles don't steer well !


There are also a lot of "Kellys" in Pembrokeshire !

[AKAP]

Jude

I may well share your views on the fact that immigration control in the UK has been too weak but I do think any debate should be based on fact.
Are you sure that your neighbours are "illegal immigrants" see
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/n ... l-benefits
or are they assylum seekers see
http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/practi ... /facts.htm

The evidence you have given would suggest that they are probably neither, if they are in fact legal immigrants any access to benefits will depend on their immigration status.

[Jude]

Jude

I may well share your views on the fact that immigration control in the UK has been too weak but I do think any debate should be based on fact.
Are you sure that your neighbours are "illegal immigrants" see
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/n ... l-benefits
or are they assylum seekers see
http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/practi ... /facts.htm

The evidence you have given would suggest that they are probably neither, if they are in fact legal immigrants any access to benefits will depend on their immigration status.

sorry, if I didnt make it totally correct, but also I didn't say they were my neighbours. And, we are told on the local news that we have illegal immigrants living in good housing etc whilst this Government tries to send them home. So I would say that most of what I said was correct at the time of going to press. Fewer seem to be in holding areas now, as that probably would hurt their human rights.

[Jo]

I feel so left out !!! Virtually everyone I know, including Chris, has some known non-British ancestery (Chris's father's family came over from Norway as timber traders around 1800). But as far as my mother and I have traced our ancestors on both hers and my father's side, we are solidly British. I'm half English (both grandfathers), a quarter Welsh (maternal grandmother) and a quarter Irish (paternal grandmother). I feel so boring - I'd love to discover something a bit more exotic, even if it was only other western European.

I did a mitochondrial DNA test a couple of years ago - why, I don't know; it doesn't really tell you much and the results are wildly romanticised. I came out as solidly Celtic which was no surprise. I suppose the Celts are originally from continental Europe but I'd probably have to go back a long way to find the immigrants in my family.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

I have to say that the notion of the "English" (Anglish ?) fills me with some amusement ---

I suppose the Ancient Brits (Several Tribes and districts) moved over to Wales, but there is little historical evidence, of their assimilation.
There was, recently, an investigation of Northumberland and Yorkshire (Careful Neill ----TBA is near ! ) which suggested that a significant number contained Viking DNA. Saint Patrick was, of course, a Scottish, Roman Slave !
Are the Cornish Bretons ? or, are the Bretons Cornish ?
Danes, Angles, Dutch (How many of William of Orange's Army settled ? ) we could whisper that Germans (Hanover and Saxe Coberg) had some influences ----- and I am sure that the Normans "Put it about" a lot !!!

I believe that "English" is a matter of thinking and culture, regardles of Origin, John Betjeman --- now what could be more English than that ?

[gma]

I had no idea that this could be done on request - having seen a programme ages ago when a woman proud of her "Anglo-Saxon" ancestry was shown to have the DNA of (???) an Eastern European Romany. She was furious! I thought the DNA testing was done just for the programme.

I'd be interested to do the ancestry thing one day - my mother had a very unusual name. It was Peppitt. I've never met or heard of another Peppitt. My father never knew who his father was, so that's one untraceable ancestor.

There is a book called Seven Daughter's of Eve which kicked this off and there is a link where you can pay to send a cheek swab off and find out to which one of the seven genetic strains you belong. It used to be about £100.

As far as the ancestry thing goes, my Mum is doing here side of the family, travels off all over the country creeping around graveyards and rummaging through raggedy old church records as well as the gazillion shiny new census discs that she has. She's back to the late 1400 in some strands and so far we have discoverd that my first fiance and I were (VERY) distantly related and as a side bar my Stepfather and HWMBI's Stepfather are related! If you know where your Father was born you can find out to whom he was registered! Mum's having a ball doing this and has made up little books for us all to 'inherit'. I say little, mine's running to about 500 pages last time I looked as she's interspersing things about local stuff she finds out and comments about the time and area and economics etc etc.

[Jo]

The Seven Daughters of Eve is the Oxford Ancestors' dressing up of the whole mitochondrial DNA thing. They have divided our maternal ancestors into 7 notional "tribes" and identified them with a fictitious "daughter of Eve", each with their own particular provenance and characteristics. It's all a bit romanticised.

I had my mitochondrial DNA tested two or three years ago and I think it was nearer to £200. With hindsight it was probably a waste of money because both mitochondrial and paternal DNA only tell you about the extreme outside edges of your DNA (mother's mother's mother's...... and father's father's father's...... etc - except that women can't have their paternal DNA tested; only men can). The really interesting thing would be to have the more comprehensive DNA test (not sure what it's called) but that's (a) much more expensive, and (b) less reliable, I think. That's the test that was used in the programme someone mentioned, where they confronted some "little Englanders" with the fact that they actually had a very mixed bloodline.