Does anyone on this forum go to church?

[huntertitus]

I no longer attend church in the UK. If there is no sense of majesty, awe and glory I believe the sense of God is lost.

Why not try an Anglo-Catholic church? They do things in a much more authentic way.

[J.R.]

Jan and I have occasionally fancied attended a Gospel Service a la Brixton or Wandsworth.

So happy and cheerful, not all gloom and despondancy.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

JR, --- I was brought up --- pre-War in Stockwell,"Coster Country" with, of course, no Gospel Choirs,

I Imagine it is different now, and there must be quite a few ------ Wonderful Singing

[Jude]

I don't go to Church per se - but I do go to Shule (Jewish Synagogue) reasonably regularly, and I practice Kosher in my home, and observe as much as I can on Shabbat - it's a far cry from days of CH, being confirmed etc - but I think it was "the thing to do" at about 14, and being in Senior Choir we got to sing in some fantastic churches, Cathedrals and of course St Pauls Cathedral for Barnes Wallis's memorial Service (yes I still have the program, and when I think of the day, my ears start to ring from the trumpets up in the whispering gallery!!!

I tried a few "churches" whilst my daughter was going through the "confirmation" thing - we didn't find any that felt "right", and yet now as a Jew, she feels "right", I feel complete, (just got a text from my Rabbi asking if I am well enough to go to Chabad and Shule this w/e! talk about being hassled!! LOL he is so sweet!).

I think religion is for those of us who want it in our lives, it shouldn’t be forced, I detest those who come and bang on the door and try to force their beliefs down your throat. Everyone is different, and their soul / spirits are their own, and filled with whatever makes them happy. G-D is not for the afterlife - it is for time here, now, in the actions we do everyday - letting a car out whilst in traffic can be seen as a G-Dly act to some people especially if they are frustrated! Too much is made out of the Bible, especially when you consider the number of re-writes and modernisation it has had - but if you look at a Torah - it is copied, letter by letter from the ancient Torahs of 3,000 years ago, still using the biblical script. That hasn't been updated or modernised, but the way we look at life, and leading better ones has. All of the rules and regulations written in Bibles, Torahs, Korans etc are there to control the masses, to give order to a large group of people who were chaotic. Is it surprising then, that we go through phases of being deeply religious in some format, then fall out with it? As we grow up and read more, and understand more, and science proves another fragment of something we have to skew our minds through this mire of rationale, and work out where we are within it, if we want to be and if we feel comfortable - it is a choice we make each day, sometimes without even thinking.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

Hi Jude! (no I won't do the obvious !)

I was very interested in your Post.
I have said, previously, that I lived in a Jewish community for 5 years, and I loved being there as one of the "Goyim"
All the best Jewish jokes come from the Jews, and one of mine was , recently "Capped" by one of my Jewish friends ----
Shortened ---- Lady goes to Rabbi to have her dog's Barmitzva -- Rabbi, horrified, suggests Reform Synagogue (Jewish joke)
Reform Rabbi also horrified, until she offers £10,000 --- Why didn't you SAY it was a Jewish dog ?
My friends version was --- he said "Go to the Liberal Synagogue " --- who asked "What's a Barmitzva ?"

Being Irish, I think the best Irish Jokes ---- come from the Irish !

[J.R.]

Careful Neill !

I can hear the PC Police approaching you as I type !

[Angela Woodford]

A lovely and thoughtful post, Jude.

(NEILL, maybe not the best place for your jokes.)

I find that I agree with Kerren in that I can believe in a Creative God, and can tune in to spirituality in all sorts of ways - but always in the historical Jesus, although I haven't studied theology and philosophy as she has.

Maybe that's why I enjoy Buddhist reading - the Buddha taught that one should question the things in which one can't automatically believe. Brought up in forceful Christian Evangelism, this is attractive to me.

I still love the C of E liturgy and music - what a strange mixture of philosophies in our culture!

[huntertitus]

I think Jude must be truly wise to have written that and I agree that evangekists are dreadful and put many many people off religion. There is among humans a real need to ask the unanswerable questions and believe in things spiritual - even non religious people such as humanists and animists seem to be searching for something outside the physical world. I think all intelligent people feel there is something there beyond, just out of reach. I admire the work of William Blake who was not at all a Christian but developed his own mythology, was interested in ancient English religious sites and apparently got in trouble with his neighbours for being a naturist in his garden! There's a chap one can admire! And I love the fact that we sing the hymn Jerusalem which is not really Christian at all, just a sort of metaphysical wandering.

[Deb GP]

I go. But after seven years of all the formality of religion at CH (and no one explaining any of it - e.g. the dressing up, the bowing, the signs etc) I've slipped right down the candle and also became a local preacher in the Methodist Church (like an Anglican reader). I love encouraging people to think about what they believe and why, especially at Xmas time. Tis amazing how many church goers completely DON'T have a clue about what they believe and so much of it is received wisdom or they've taken texts at face value without acutally challenging/thinking about them. And I guess I've got Dr Mundhill (History at CH) to thank for that introduction and encouraging questioning and thinking and not just accepting stuff, although having learnt that he's now an eminent Jewish historian, perhaps he was simply chipping away at Christianity in an as covert way as possible in an Anglican School.

[Fjgrogan]

Yes, I do too. I was, and technically still am, a Reader, but for some reason the local vicar has decided not to let me officiate as such any more, which is a great sorrow to me. However it is not practical for me to change churches, so I remain where I am, and where my friends are, and just worship on a Sunday morning and attend a housegroup once a week or so, and fume every time somebody suggests in a sermon how important it is that we should obey God's call. I notice however how many people on this forum offer to others not just their thoughts but also their prayers when things are going wrong, so something of the CH ethos definitely rubbed off!

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

I think Jude must be truly wise to have written that and I agree that evangekists are dreadful and put many many people off religion. There is among humans a real need to ask the unanswerable questions and believe in things spiritual - even non religious people such as humanists and animists seem to be searching for something outside the physical world. I think all intelligent people feel there is something there beyond, just out of reach. I admire the work of William Blake who was not at all a Christian but developed his own mythology, was interested in ancient English religious sites and apparently got in trouble with his neighbours for being a naturist in his garden! There's a chap one can admire! And I love the fact that we sing the hymn Jerusalem which is not really Christian at all, just a sort of metaphysical wandering.

I suppose huntertitus is entitled to the opinion stated --- however to state that Evangelists are dreadful -- puts my back up and I grind my teeth. I also note that He/She is not clever enough to spell EVANGELISTS
His /Her statements are sweeping and ill- founded. Has He/She considered the work, throughout the World of Medical Missionaries ? of the Eye -saving Cateract Operations, carried out FREE to patients in Third World countries.?
TBA worked, without pay, for five years, looking after Lepers and Karen Refugees.
You are, on this Forum, at liberty to express your views, but I would advise you, strongly, not to express them in my hearing !

[Mid A 15]

I think Jude must be truly wise to have written that and I agree that evangekists are dreadful and put many many people off religion. There is among humans a real need to ask the unanswerable questions and believe in things spiritual - even non religious people such as humanists and animists seem to be searching for something outside the physical world. I think all intelligent people feel there is something there beyond, just out of reach. I admire the work of William Blake who was not at all a Christian but developed his own mythology, was interested in ancient English religious sites and apparently got in trouble with his neighbours for being a naturist in his garden! There's a chap one can admire! And I love the fact that we sing the hymn Jerusalem which is not really Christian at all, just a sort of metaphysical wandering.

I suppose huntertitus is entitled to the opinion stated --- however to state that Evangelists are dreadful -- puts my back up and I grind my teeth. I also note that He/She is not clever enough to spell EVANGELISTS
His /Her statements are sweeping and ill- founded. Has He/She considered the work, throughout the World of Medical Missionaries ? of the Eye -saving Cateract Operations, carried out FREE to patients in Third World countries.?
TBA worked, without pay, for five years, looking after Lepers and Karen Refugees.
You are, on this Forum, at liberty to express your views, but I would advise you, strongly, not to express them in my hearing !

There are good eggs and bad eggs in every basket.

[loringa]

I suppose huntertitus is entitled to the opinion stated --- however to state that Evangelists are dreadful -- puts my back up and I grind my teeth. I also note that He/She is not clever enough to spell EVANGELISTS
His /Her statements are sweeping and ill- founded. Has He/She considered the work, throughout the World of Medical Missionaries ? of the Eye -saving Cateract Operations, carried out FREE to patients in Third World countries.?
TBA worked, without pay, for five years, looking after Lepers and Karen Refugees.
You are, on this Forum, at liberty to express your views, but I would advise you, strongly, not to express them in my hearing !

Neill, I think it is entirely reasonable of you to take Huntertitus to task over his broad generalisation. I do not, however, feel it is fair of you to 'advise him strongly not to express them in your hearing.' There is nothing defamatory in what he has written and he has as much right to post it on this forum as you have to take issue with it. I would suggest that it is entirely a matter of opinion and individual conviction as to whether those to whom the missionaries minister gain any benefit from the religious as opposed to the charitable aspects of the mission. I suspect that many recipients of a missionary's largesse welcome the latter whilst merely tolerating the former. These are, of course, only my views and I do not expect you, or anyone else for that matter, to agree with them.

[englishangel]

I think Jude must be truly wise to have written that and I agree that evangekists are dreadful and put many many people off religion. There is among humans a real need to ask the unanswerable questions and believe in things spiritual - even non religious people such as humanists and animists seem to be searching for something outside the physical world. I think all intelligent people feel there is something there beyond, just out of reach. I admire the work of William Blake who was not at all a Christian but developed his own mythology, was interested in ancient English religious sites and apparently got in trouble with his neighbours for being a naturist in his garden! There's a chap one can admire! And I love the fact that we sing the hymn Jerusalem which is not really Christian at all, just a sort of metaphysical wandering.

I suppose huntertitus is entitled to the opinion stated --- however to state that Evangelists are dreadful -- puts my back up and I grind my teeth. I also note that He/She is not clever enough to spell EVANGELISTS
His /Her statements are sweeping and ill- founded. Has He/She considered the work, throughout the World of Medical Missionaries ? of the Eye -saving Cateract Operations, carried out FREE to patients in Third World countries.?
TBA worked, without pay, for five years, looking after Lepers and Karen Refugees.
You are, on this Forum, at liberty to express your views, but I would advise you, strongly, not to express them in my hearing !

and hitting K instead of L (the letter next to it) is hardly a sign of "not being clever".

Not often you let your prejudices show Neill.

[Angela Woodford]

It can be rather exhausting (sorry NEILL, is that one of your absolute thingies?) to be evangelised - and by fundamentalists!

Whilst being constantly aware of the wonderful work of the foreign mission field, I was South-London-evangelised from birth onwards. It was drummed into me that I should be leading the way for others, being the organist and choirmaster's daughter. It was up to me to show an example. My ultimate heroine should be Gladys Aylward.

I know I've droned on about it before.

Scripture Union by the bed
Have you had your Quiet Time?
Billy Graham and all that he involved
The real risk of being prayed over
Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy
Giving your heart to the Lord Jesus
The Promise Box
Careful vetting of dubious unchristian reading matter
The Barbican Church Mission to the Jews
He died for YOU!

and a lot of other strong messages... This was a wonderful advantage of CH, NEILL. Nobody urged or begged you to give your heart to the Lord Jesus - in fact, if anyone had claimed to have done so, it would have been considered unusual.

However, those South London Evangelists did mean well. Some were sweet, some were not!