Maidstone And Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust

[Mid A 15]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,, ... 14,00.html

There are a number of present (former) NHS employees on this forum.

What do people think?

[J.R.]

Bring back people like Hattie Jaques to run hospitals - Not accountants and managers !

[blondie95]

well Maidstone is my local hospital-im just hoping i dont fall ill anytime soon! Or try and go private

[Angela Woodford]

Here's my theory that might explain spread of infection on wards which, despite alcohol rubs on the foot of each bed, plastic pinnies, handwashing protocol etc -

It's the computer

Before I left nursing I noticed how, on the modern ward, the computer sits in the middle of the nurses work station. Everybody uses it - nurses, doctors, physios, dieticians, ward clerk; those part of the ward team and visitors to the ward. Nobody washes their hands before or after - well, it's clean isn't it?

But a computer is warm plastic with many crevices. It strikes me that it's an ideal breeding ground for bugs. It's never rigorously cleaned. At least, in all my days as a Return-to-Practicer, I never saw any cleaning protocol for the computer.

Munch

[AndrewH]

Here's my theory that might explain spread of infection on wards which, despite alcohol rubs on the foot of each bed, plastic pinnies, handwashing protocol etc -

It's the computer

Before I left nursing I noticed how, on the modern ward, the computer sits in the middle of the nurses work station. Everybody uses it - nurses, doctors, physios, dieticians, ward clerk; those part of the ward team and visitors to the ward. Nobody washes their hands before or after - well, it's clean isn't it?

But a computer is warm plastic with many crevices. It strikes me that it's an ideal breeding ground for bugs. It's never rigorously cleaned. At least, in all my days as a Return-to-Practicer, I never saw any cleaning protocol for the computer.

Munch

I've just looked at the one I'm using (not in a hospital though, in a library) - it's very grubby!

I have seen some keyboards that are a sheet of glass (or stainless steel) so that they can be cleaned fairly aggressively. These have no moving parts (there are pressure sensors on the reverse side of the glass/stainless that detect that he top has been pressed). Not sure that you would want to touch type all day with one, but good for looking up the odd bit of information. I wonder if any hospitals have these?

[Misterbee]

Just like blondie95 this is my local health authority. My wife had to go to Maidstone casualty on Monday. The staff there were brilliant but the state of the place was pretty poor. The comments we heard relating to the recently departed CEO were not very complimentary. There were hand cleaning stations with no hand cleaning facilities. The toilets were in such a state as you tried not to touch anything more than you could help. The general appearence of the place is untidy much the same as Kent & Sussex Hospital Tunbridge Wells and Pembury Hospital. Unfortunately we are stuck with our local hospitals and have no choice but to take our chances.

[sejintenej]

Here's my theory that might explain spread of infection on wards which, despite alcohol rubs on the foot of each bed, plastic pinnies, handwashing protocol etc -

It's the computer

Before I left nursing I noticed how, on the modern ward, the computer sits in the middle of the nurses work station. Everybody uses it - nurses, doctors, physios, dieticians, ward clerk; those part of the ward team and visitors to the ward. Nobody washes their hands before or after - well, it's clean isn't it?

But a computer is warm plastic with many crevices. It strikes me that it's an ideal breeding ground for bugs. It's never rigorously cleaned. At least, in all my days as a Return-to-Practicer, I never saw any cleaning protocol for the computer.

Munch

Nice spot, Angela. You are right but only partially so.

I had occasion to make a complaint to the Ombudsman 7 years ago and what came out of that was truly shocking.
1. someone with a poor command of English was gicing out the pills but he got them wrong; for example there should have been a little red one and in its place he gave a huge white one. To make amends he shook the correct pill out of its wrapper into the palm of his hand and offered that!
That was refused so he put it back in its foil and back in the medicine trolley. As for the wriong pills he searched round for pills ogf the same colour, pushed them into the foil and put them back in the trolley.
2. Sluices were not cleaned properly and 20 mixed patients had to share 1 toilet/shower
3. A woman with cancer was ringing her bell and eventualy let go in her bed; the nurses simply ignored her and carried on with their toast.
4. A patient preparing for surgery was required to have certain injections to bring him "down" from mega doses of steroids given over 4 months. In a large hospital (nearly 800 beds) they had just one nurse on duty at night who was authorised to give injections - and she forgot. The next morning they cocxked up the pills meaning that instead of 6 lots of medicine at 4 hourly intervals he went from noon to 11am with no prescribed medicines including pain killers despite having advanced cancer. We have discovered that the person responsible was also the person who handled all complaints and reports of mistakes; a report was made and "lost"
5 Head of A & E recommended that a complaint be ignored because the complainant did not exhibit sufficient respect for the medical profession.
6. As to alcohol wipes, yes - they had the bottle hidden near the outside door to the ward; you cleaned your hands then you had to grip and pull the door handle to get into the ward.
7. Upon questioning we were told that it is against the NHS Trust's policy to offer patients bowls of water to wash themselves nor to suggest that they go and wash themselves because to do so would be against their human rights. Nurses are not there to wash patients who cannot wash themselves (and this was a ward where patients are becoming weaker and weaker and dying of cancer).
8. In many months visiting that hospital only twice did I see a staff member clean their hands; one was a consultant and the other a registrar. I should qualify that in that in the HDU the staff were frequently out of sight so they could have been keeping clean out of sight.
9 What I did not see was the practice in some countries of literally sterilizing beds and mattresses in what looks like a bath between patients

The consequence was the entire Trust board was sacked with the CE being banned from hospital jobs above the rank of porter. The Ombudsman was so shocked that they had a specialist in the hospital almost fulltime for 2 1/2 years to ensure that it was sorted out. The Chief Executive's replacement has just disappeared apparently under a cloud.
They built a replacement hospital which is the seat of excellence for certain procedures and THE hospital serving a huge area. Unfortunately they forgot to build a lead lined room to give radiotherapy for cancer. They haven't got a licence to give clotbusting drugs to those who have had strokes and there are umpteen other problems. They can't insert stents for heart patients because they don't have the equipment - and all this is over a year after they opened.

Barbara - just pray you don't get ill or .............................. (On second thoughts, just tell us now what your favourite flowers are).

[blondie95]

Here's my theory that might explain spread of infection on wards which, despite alcohol rubs on the foot of each bed, plastic pinnies, handwashing protocol etc -

It's the computer

Before I left nursing I noticed how, on the modern ward, the computer sits in the middle of the nurses work station. Everybody uses it - nurses, doctors, physios, dieticians, ward clerk; those part of the ward team and visitors to the ward. Nobody washes their hands before or after - well, it's clean isn't it?

But a computer is warm plastic with many crevices. It strikes me that it's an ideal breeding ground for bugs. It's never rigorously cleaned. At least, in all my days as a Return-to-Practicer, I never saw any cleaning protocol for the computer.



ive just spoken to mum and she was little concerned about the fact this is my local healthcare. Told me if i got ill to get the fiance to drive me into essex or east susex. I then told her the fiance has BUPA cover for both of us so dont panic!

Munch

I've just looked at the one I'm using (not in a hospital though, in a library) - it's very grubby!

I have seen some keyboards that are a sheet of glass (or stainless steel) so that they can be cleaned fairly aggressively. These have no moving parts (there are pressure sensors on the reverse side of the glass/stainless that detect that he top has been pressed). Not sure that you would want to touch type all day with one, but good for looking up the odd bit of information. I wonder if any hospitals have these?

[icomefromalanddownunder]

Here's my theory that might explain spread of infection on wards which, despite alcohol rubs on the foot of each bed, plastic pinnies, handwashing protocol etc -

It's the computer


Munch

Hi Munch

I agree, and add telephones as another possible source. Oh, and door handles.

Sitting in tea room at path lab last night, having removed lab coat and thoroughly washed hands (including around the base of my thumbs ), when in walked someone from smelly old Histo, wearing not only her lab coat, but also gloves. She opened cupboard door and dumped some food remnants in the bin. Didn't like to ask whether or not she had been eating in the lab (surrounded by bits of surgically removed lumps and stuff).

When it was time for me to leave for home, I once again removed my lab coat and washed my hands, then went to the tea room to grab my leftovers from the fridge. What a dilemma! I had seen someone touch the door handle with (presumably) contaminated gloves.................

On a slightly different note, NSW and Qld are in the grips of an outbreak of Equine Influenza. The first ever case in Australia was recorded a few weeks ago, and has been traced to a japanese horse being held in quarantine (note to government scientists: LIFT YOUR ACT GUYS). There are strict rules in place about movement of horses, and the only way into Tassie from the mainland is by ship or aircraft, so I don't think that any horses have been smuggled across Bass Strait, yet there is now a recorded case in Tassie. The only way I can think it got there is by piggy backing on a human.

xx

[Mrs C.]

I agree, and add telephones as another possible source. Oh, and door handles.

I`d add chip and pin machines and cashpoint machines.

And did you realise. ladies.(and gentlemen?) that if you put your handbag on the floor in a public toilet, the bottom of the bag will pick up millions more nasties than there are in and on the loo itself?
And what do we do with our bags?
Put them on the table /counter of the coffee shop, or on the kitchen table when we get home!
Doesn`t bear thinking about really!

( And I`m far from being hygiene-obsessed, as any visitor to my house would tell you!!)

[englishangel]

I was in the BBC South East, Meridian Region when all this broke and the pictures were HORRIBLE.

The alcohol rubs are all very well but they don't get rid of the spores of C Diff, that takes soap and water.

Many of us carry C diff. but we are healthy and have good bacteria which keep it in check, it is improper use of antibiotics especially around immuno-compromised peeps which causes all the problems.

In the hospital in question it said that a there was a box in the fridge used to store patients food AND medication and the contents were so far gone you couldn't tell what it was.

Food belongs in one fridge and medication in another.

Caroline, your colleagues behaviour is making me feel quite queasy.

All these nurses and so on traipsing round Tesco in their uniforms doesn't help but the main problem is poor or no handwashing, and general cleaning.