Male and female teachers.....

[jtaylor]

Was listening to Radio 5 Live late last night.
Discussion on teachers not being able to show any affection or touch children in any way, even when hurt or upset (the kids, not the teachers!)

They kept saying that male primary school teachers had to be very careful, and thus implying that women don't, and that there's a difference....

Nobody questioned this at all, and the assumption just seemed taken as common sense.

Thoughts?

J

[Hendrik]

see your point but cases of female teachers harassing male pupils are rare to say the least. much rarer than male pupils harassing female teachers, male teachers harassing female pupils, male teachers harassing male pupils, male teachers harassing female teachers.....

and so on...

you'll find it's the males who tend to do the harassing, if there is any to be done.

[jtaylor]

I guess if it's backed-up by overwhelming statistics then fair enough, but it would still imply that women are presumed innocent, whereas men are presumed guilty, based on statistics??
If we applied that to overall crime, based on prison populations and offender rates....dangerous??

[Tim_MaA_MidB]

Young males probably find being "harrased" by older female teachers less of a problem.

However, my predessesor at the college, a female lecturer, was sacked for having under-age sex with a boy scout and wasn't there a case in America recently which was along similar lines?

[Mid A 15]

Was listening to Radio 5 Live late last night.
Discussion on teachers not being able to show any affection or touch children in any way, even when hurt or upset (the kids, not the teachers!)

They kept saying that male primary school teachers had to be very careful, and thus implying that women don't, and that there's a difference....

Nobody questioned this at all, and the assumption just seemed taken as common sense.

Thoughts?

J

My wife works as a Teaching Assistant and the "non contact" rule applies to women as well as men.

That said in the Primary sector male teachers / assistants are becoming increasingly rare partly, but not exclusively, because there does seem a tendency (maybe because of the preponderance of women?) to presume guilt when an adult male is involved in an incident.

[J.R.]

Young males probably find being "harrased" by older female teachers less of a problem.

However, my predessesor at the college, a female lecturer, was sacked for having under-age sex with a boy scout and wasn't there a case in America recently which was along similar lines?

Was the offence that the boy was under-age, or that he was a boy scout ?

I'm reliably informed by a teaching relative that liasons between female teachers and lads in the sixth form are far more common than one would think ! All tends to be hushed up unless someone of 'importance' or the press happen to find out.

[AKAP]

Young males probably find being "harrased" by older female teachers less of a problem.

However, my predessesor at the college, a female lecturer, was sacked for having under-age sex with a boy scout and wasn't there a case in America recently which was along similar lines?

Was the offence that the boy was under-age, or that he was a boy scout ?

I'm reliably informed by a teaching relative that liasons between female teachers and lads in the sixth form are far more common than one would think ! All tends to be hushed up unless someone of 'importance' or the press happen to find out.

and how many sixth form boys would make a complaint?

[Tim_MaA_MidB]

Well, exactly my point.

[graham]

There have been several cases over here recently involving female teachers and underage (14-15yr old) boys. I don't think that the boys are unwilling participants and the case is normally only discovered when a parent reads their child's journal or a rumour passes around. There seem to be a number of other accussers who then come forward (jealousy/ broken hearts?). Most of these woman seem to suffer from psycological disorders and are ripped to pieces by the press. The most recent one I saw was a very attractive young teacher (if I had been her student ......) who had some severe problems but was treated in exactly the same way by the press as a man would have been.

Interestingly, there was another recent case where a woman teacher who was jailed for around 10 yrs for having sex with a student, married said student on her release from jail. So here's the problem: Teachers who have sexual relations with their students, regardless of age, are breaking a code of conduct. However, if the relationship is consentual, is it that bad i.e is it really sexual assault? I know what I think, but what about you guys?

[J.R.]

I suppose it's the old adage that, 'the line has to be drawn somewhere'

It is quite possible to find a fourteen or fifteen year old girl or boy who is far more mature, mentally and physically than one, say sixteen years old.

We had a case here in Surrey, not so very long ago, of a female teacher having quite a torrid fling with a young man in her school. Because the parents of the boy complained, she got castigated and convicted. She lost her career, though I'm told they are still in contact.

Male teachers and female students presents a slightly more different scenario, though I'm sure some of you will disagree.

[cj]

My wife works as a Teaching Assistant and the "non contact" rule applies to women as well as men.

This is true. And, in my opinion, is very difficult when working with young children. Most children are naturally tactile and look to the adults in charge of them for comfort and support, by holding hands in the playground or a cuddle when upset or hurt. I think this just teaches them that all physical contact is bad, and not to distinguish from contact that makes them feel uncomfortable or threatened. And primary schools are crying out for more male teachers. It is a very female dominated area and I'm not sure that is good, especially for boys who have no male role models at home. I will sound like a tree-hugging hippy when I say this but the world might be a happier place if we all gave and received hugs and cuddles more.

[Katharine]

My wife works as a Teaching Assistant and the "non contact" rule applies to women as well as men.

This is true. And, in my opinion, is very difficult when working with young children. Most children are naturally tactile and look to the adults in charge of them for comfort and support, by holding hands in the playground or a cuddle when upset or hurt. I think this just teaches them that all physical contact is bad, and not to distinguish from contact that makes them feel uncomfortable or threatened. And primary schools are crying out for more male teachers. It is a very female dominated area and I'm not sure that is good, especially for boys who have no male role models at home. I will sound like a tree-hugging hippy when I say this but the world might be a happier place if we all gave and received hugs and cuddles more.

I agree with so much here. When I was teaching in London in the 80s it was already becoming difficult to give a cuddle to a child who needed one, I really had to restrain myself at times. I did not find it easy and I'm sure the children didn't. A quick hug can make things better after a bruising encounter in the playground - whether physical or mental encounter.

[Tim_MaA_MidB]

If you are confident that "the truth will out", then I am sure that innocent hugs will pass largely unremarked. The problem is that people these days are excessively PC and in some cases just downright malicious.

I have to be careful at the college to not be in the same classroom with only one other student in case that student makes an allegation of improper conduct!

I have only worked with young adults at the college, but I may be required to teach younger children when I start work in Brazil. At any rate, I will try to remember to update this post with what I suspect will be a different approach.

[darthmaul]

Funny this, because I am seriously considering going into Primary teaching. Thankfully, I know what I'm letting myself in for, as both my parents are primary teachers. Not sure I could cope with the really little ones though. It's when they can't read that I start to lose patience.

Thankfully my dad has been doing this for almost ten years, and he's never had any incidents where his conduct has been called into question. His pupils have hugged him, and he does occasionally clip one round the ear I think, although that is very rare, and only when he knows it will not rebound on him. Often, this is not a disciplinary measure, more a 'you're being silly' kind of gesture.

However, he has noticed that a lot of the girls seem to have been advised that the male teachers (there are three in his school) should be watched, and that any seemingly 'untoward' contact is a good context for legal action or otherwise. It is surprisingly scary how well informed the kids seem at their age about what the teachers can and cannot do. My dad suspects the parents are in it for any possible gain they can get out of it.

[J.R.]

Taking this thread on a step further.....

Being an only child and bought up to maturity from the age of 11 at Horsham, I have always found it hard to be a cuddly-huggy person, and consequently, I think our daughters suffered slightly.

The addition of four Grand-Children has changed all this, as luckily, they are all cuddle-bugs.

Strangely enough, at a footy tournament last weekend, eldest Grand-Daughter and I, (she's 14 and a strapping beauty), were walking to the refreshment stand, arms around each other, and I felt extremely proud and somewhat humbled at some of the admiring glances, even if there one or two glances which could be contrued as doubtful !