Michael Cherniavsky

Share your memories and stories from your days at school, and find out the truth behind the rumours....Remember the teachers and pupils, tell us who you remember and why...

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michael scuffil
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by michael scuffil »

Our Chern reported that the standard at the university in Canada was nowhere near as high as the History Grecians at Christ's Hospital. (That is to say, Chern reported it to X, and X reported it to me. I forget who X was, it could have been one of three or four people.)

In those days, you didn't need a postgrad degree for an academic job (at least, not outside the US) and even when I did my PhD in the late 1970s, my supervisor (who didn't have one) was a bit sniffy about the whole business, saying 'It's your union card [for an academic post] I'm afraid.'
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Oliver
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by Oliver »

I’m pleased, Katharine, your software could understand the three dots and got straight to the correct web page. I presume this is true for all other forum readers, for there have been no further comments. However I have tried many times, always with the same result. Using the abbreviated (3 dots) version, I cannot arrive at the correct page and end up with an error message. My software is very old and that has to be the reason.
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LongGone
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by LongGone »

michael scuffil wrote: Fri May 26, 2017 9:55 am
In those days, you didn't need a postgrad degree for an academic job (at least, not outside the US) and even when I did my PhD in the late 1970s, my supervisor (who didn't have one) was a bit sniffy about the whole business, saying 'It's your union card [for an academic post] I'm afraid.'
That certainly was not true in the sciences. I started graduate school in Canada in 1970 and every one needed a minimum of a PhD to even be considered for a job. In fact there wasn't anyone from any era, going back to the 40s without one.
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alterblau
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by alterblau »

Whatever the Canadian practice, elsewhere there have been university teachers of science without a PhD, but very few.

One such was Mr Carl Collie a senior lecturer at Oxford who retired in 1971. (He spent two years in the University of Peshawar, Pakistan, where we was called a visiting professor, but returned to Oxford again as Mr Collie.) However he was given a consolation prize just before he retired, an honorary DSc. Oxford showed its broadmindedness by appointing him as a physicist, when his BA was in chemistry. That was the only non-honorary degree he had, though later it became a MA. Mr Collie supervised many PhDs and his most famous pupil is Richard Wilson, a professor still at Harvard after over 60 years with about 1000 publications and he’s still publishing.
michael scuffil
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by michael scuffil »

One might note the case of our own dear David Newsome. For almost all of his time at Cambridge, including when he was my Director of Studies, and Senior Tutor of Emmanuel College, he was plain Mr Newsome. He got his Litt.D on the strength of his published work at quite a late stage (as is usual) and never had a Ph.D.
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by sejintenej »

Going back to the question of equivalents, in the late 1950's it was reckoned that a pass at Alevel (at least in the sciences) was the same standard as after a year and a half at Harvard or Yale.
That said there is a major difference between UK education at this level and that in the USA. Wespecialised in the two / three subjects forgetting all others; itseems that in the US you have to do courses in non-specialist subjects as well as your speciality - they should have a wider knowledge base. However, when I was in New York I was amazed at the level of ignorance exhibited by very senior bank officers even about thier own professional specialities.
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by Roper »

michael scuffil wrote: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:11 pm As for the elections for the Chancellor of Oxford, certainly Oliver Franks was the establishment candidate; he was, to use a phrase of John Le Carré's,one of nature's prefects. His election was considered a foregone conclusion until Hugh Trevor-Roper started a campaign for Harold Macmillan. This was controversial in itself because HM was the incumbent Prime Minister and many thought the two jobs were incompatible. (It would be barely conceivable today). As a supporter of the Labour Party, Chern would not have liked Macmillan. On principle, he would not have wanted the incumbent PM. And like most historians, he would have detested Hugh Trevor-Roper. So he had three reasons to vote against Macmillan, even though Franks was hardly his candidate.

Hugh Trevor-Roper in due course became Regius Professor (a post in the gift of, guess who?).

[Slightly inaccurate account of the sequence of events regarding Hugh Trevor-Roper (no relation):
Trevor-Roper was awarded the Oxford Regius chair of history - over the just claims of AJP Taylor - in 1957; he put Macmillan up for Chancellor in 1960, so it can only be seen as a thankyou to his patron]
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by Fitzsadou »

Since the election of Harold Macmillan as Chancellor of the University of Oxford has been mentioned again, there is an important additional comment that has also been made previously. Macmillan was chosen purposely not because of who he was (although there was some degree of ‘payback’), but as a protest against the method of selection of Sir Oliver Franks, universally agreed as an excellent candidate. But he was chosen after no consultation at all with senior professors. So the latter, who in fact mainly agreed that Sir Oliver was the better candidate, chose someone else, as a matter of principle and whom they knew would win. It worked, although his majority was only 90 votes. Thereafter, however appropriate the ‘official’ candidate s/he was finally nominated after widespread consultation The previously posted comment follows.
In one sense it is not clear that for the election for Chancellor of Oxford University in 1960 MTC would have voted for Sir Oliver Franks, although superficially he was not the establishment candidate. Sir OF was chosen as a candidate by a very small group of senior professors, because he was rightly thought to be a most excellent choice. (He had proved himself as a most effective Provost [Head] of Worcester College, Oxford, Ambassador and Civil Servant.) Another group of equally senior members of the university objected, not because of Sir OF, whom they readily acknowledged was clearly the best candidate, but because of the lack of any consultation process in selecting him. This they felt was so undemocratic that the only way they could make their point was to find another candidate who would clearly win the election, although he would be a lesser Chancellor. This is why Harold Macmillan was chosen by them. However MTC would possibly (though it’s unlikely) have been swayed by this matter of principle. So he may therefore have wished to prevent a candidate (however worthy) from being foisted on all, without any wide consultation. But MTC’s deep antipathy to the Tory Party most probably would have been the stronger influence. Although Sir OF lost the election it was by a very small margin.
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by rockfreak »

Browsing this site and remembering the posts from and about Geoffrey Cannon relating to The Listener and the Radio Times, is there an equivalent of The Listener these days? A more, erm, intellectual version of the Radio Times? I used to enjoy The Listener way back then. It was unashamed to be, erm, intellectual about the next week's broadcasting. The current Radio Times seems to spend page after page on the next Strictly contestants. I suppose that the Grauniad and other broadsheets are where one looks these days for clues to intelligent broadcasting but I still miss The Listener. Maybe it was a more serious age then with people unafraid to be, erm, intellectual. One thinks of the immortal Huw Weldon and Monitor - or Huw Wellbred as Private Eye used to call him.
Last edited by rockfreak on Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
michael scuffil
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by michael scuffil »

rockfreak wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:29 pm Browsing this site and remembering the posts from and about Geoffrey Cannon relating to The Listener and the Radio Times, is there an equivalent of The Listener these days? A more, erm, intellectual version of the Radio Times? I used to enjoy The Listener way back then. It was unashamed to be, erm, intellectual about the next week's broadcasting. The current Radio Times seems to spend page after page on the next Strictly contestants. I supposed that the Grauniad and other broadsheets are where one looks these days for clues to intelligent broadcasting but I still miss The Listener. Maybe it was a more serious age then with people unafraid to be, erm, intellectual. One thinks of the immortal Huw Weldon and Monitor - or Huw Wellbred as Private Eye used to call him.
'clues to intelligent broadcasting': I suppose that's the problem. There IS still intelligent (radio) broadcasting, but most (talk) radio is run of the mill at best. I suppose one learns where gems may occasionally be picked up, and hopes for the best.
TV is almost beyond redemption. I check the BBC4 schedules, and find maybe an hour or two a month if I'm lucky.
And 'Radio Times' is a misnomer, which 'The Listener' wasn't.
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rockfreak
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by rockfreak »

Isn't it a strange thing Michael, now that I sit back and consider my posts, that I've inserted an "erm" whenever I've mentioned the word Intellectual? Is it only Britain and America that have this hang-up about Intellectuals? Dangerous pointy-heads who are too clever for their own good? Does any other country have this problem?
In the end I suppose that Intellectual merely means someone of good intelligence and good knowledge, someone able to put two and two together and make four, although I understand that some people (particularly Professors) have simply managed to drum up a lot of knowledge and pass exams on a subject for which they happen to have a facility while often being unable to boil an egg or make a decent cup of tea.
When Michael Gove said that we'd had quite enough of experts, an economics expert from one of the colleges said that, given Britain's lamentable and structural balance of trade position, perhaps what Gove really meant to say was that we'd had enough of exports. Out there in Germany you don't have this problem,
I'm reminded of that Monty Python sketch in which a working class couple go on a package tour to Ibiza and find John Paul Sartre on the tour. The woman says: "He was a miserable old sod - always going on about 'the bourgeoisie this, the bourgeoisie that'. Mind you, Fred caught him with the whoopee cushion a couple of times."
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by Martin »

What a great Monty Python sketch! And I thought I had heard them all. I hadn’t.
Is it only Britain and America that have this hang-up about Intellectuals? Dangerous pointy-heads who are too clever for their own good? Does any other country have this problem?
I don’t know the answer to this question. But there is at least one extreme contrast to the UK and USA in this regard. The French populus adore intellectuals on their popular (yes popular!) TV programmes – most especially the glib, charismatic, handsome ones who have a great personal presence. For example usually when there is a new film discussed on TV (even a downmarket blockbuster, preferably starring leads whose personal lives are very steamy), some intellectual is usually asked to comment. In fact the most charismatic French intellectuals also have a role as ‘celebrities,’ in the worst (eg the Beckhams of a few years ago – no disrespect intended) sense in France.
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by rockfreak »

For all those who are fascinated by the flush of talented CH products in the 1950s who went on to Oxbridge and greater things, you might be interested in Alan Bennett's musings in his book 'Untold Stories'.

"That there were schoolmasters who were larger than life, whose pupils considered themselves set apart, only came home to me after I'd left school (Leeds Modern) and was doing national service. It was then too, that I began mix to with boys who were much cleverer than I was and who had been better taught, all of us having ended up learning Russian at the Joint Services School. This, delightfully, was based at Cambridge. It was a heady atmosphere. Many of the others on the course were disconcertingly clever, particularly, I remember, a group of boys from Christ's Hospital - boys whose schools had been a world as mine never was, and when they talked of their schooldays there was often in the background a master whose teaching had been memorable and about whom they told anecdotes, and whose sayings they remembered: teachers, I remember thinking bitterly, who had presumably played a part in getting them the scholarships most of them had at Oxford and Cambridge. To me this just seemed unfair. I had never had such a teacher and had had to make my own way, which may be one of the reasons why I've been prompted to write such a teacher now" (I think he's talking about Hector in 'The History Boys').
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by rockfreak »

rockfreak wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:37 pm For all those who are fascinated by the flush of talented CH products in the 1950s who went on to Oxbridge and greater things, you might be interested in Alan Bennett's musings in his book 'Untold Stories'.

"That there were schoolmasters who were larger than life, whose pupils considered themselves set apart, only came home to me after I'd left school (Leeds Modern) and was doing national service. It was then too, that I began to mix with boys who were much cleverer than I was and who had been better taught, all of us having ended up learning Russian at the Joint Services School. This, delightfully, was based at Cambridge. It was a heady atmosphere. Many of the others on the course were disconcertingly clever, particularly, I remember, a group of boys from Christ's Hospital - boys whose schools had been a world as mine never was, and when they talked of their schooldays there was often in the background a master whose teaching had been memorable and about whom they told anecdotes, and whose sayings they remembered: teachers, I remember thinking bitterly, who had presumably played a part in getting them the scholarships most of them had at Oxford and Cambridge. To me this just seemed unfair. I had never had such a teacher and had had to make my own way, which may be one of the reasons why I've been prompted to write such a teacher now" (I think he's talking about Hector in 'The History Boys').
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Re: Michael Cherniavsky

Post by rockfreak »

Sorry about repeating my post. I noticed a typo in it, re-edited it, and it came up again in revised form. Me and computer technology still have a lot to learn.
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