Roger Martin

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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TMF
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Re: Roger Martin

Post by TMF » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:02 pm

I was never aware of Webb's nickname.
My recollection is that we were told that they had left.
There were others.
How many others?
When you were told that someone had suddenly departed, did you ask why?'

Another ex-pupil on nicknames:
They were all known and just accepted as semi-housey slang.
see: http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 1&#p140821

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by jtaylor » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:11 pm

I feel for Howard here - he’s been brave and open enough to come forward onto the Forum, openly as a former CH teacher, give some views and information, which he certainly didn’t have to do.

That’s FAR more than most other CH Staff, past or present, or any others in authority from CH have ever done, despite encouragement and invitations right from the very start of the Forum.

So, whilst I know feelings are running high, I don’t feel it’s fair to bombard and grill Howard - I for one welcome his input, however much or little he feels comfortable to share, when and if he feel happy and able to do so.

J
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Re: Roger Martin

Post by Jim Rayner » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:02 pm

TMF wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:02 pm
I was never aware of Webb's nickname.
My recollection is that we were told that they had left.
There were others.
How many others?
When you were told that someone had suddenly departed, did you ask why?'

Another ex-pupil on nicknames:
They were all known and just accepted as semi-housey slang.
see: http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 1&#p140821
I was at CH a year behind Howard and knew Webb because I spent my first 3 years in LHA where he was a junior housemaster. But I don’t recall Webb ever being known by the nickname Paedo. It’s possible he picked it up later, which would make some sense because the offences he pleaded guilty to all occurred after my time.
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Re: Roger Martin

Post by TMF » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

I thank Howard for his comments.

It is strange that some (most?) pupils knew the nicknames and knew why masters suddenly disappeared - even if few details were provided.

See: http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 1&#p140821 for an example.

There seems to be a group of people who saw the departures, knew that they were 'departures', (E.g. "There were others") so clearly there is a knowledge of this type of event), but accepted these teachers "had left" (simple - but decidedly odd given the suddenness of the departures - resulting in additional work being distributed to colleagues).

From what I have read here - I do not doubt that many pupils and some teachers did not realize what was happening.

I guess that there is a spectrum from ignorance, to turning a blind eye, to condoning and fostering. The school needs to decide where it sits on this spectrum.
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Re: Roger Martin

Post by Foureyes » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:06 am

Richard,
You write: "My assessment is that there were at least 50 from World War 2 on."

I regret that I did not express myself properly. I do not challenge that the police and school have some 20-30 cases on hand and that you assess that there could be "...at least 50." However, my point is that neither you, nor the police, nor the school can know how many more there might be. For example, there could be masters/abusers whose names have simply not yet come to public notice. There could also be children who were abused by masters currently under investigation but who have not yet (perhaps, never will) come forward, or there could be children who were abused by masters whose names (as mentioned above) have not yet come to light. So, the situation is open-ended and who can say that some Old Blue may not come forward in 2028 and claim that he was abused by Mr X in 1991 and as things now stand there would have to be a police investigation possibly leading to a prosecution.

The advertisements posted on this Forum and on the CHOBA website ask for anyone with allegations to come forward - so there is a clear assumption that there my be others 'out there.'

I have to say that I cannot see an answer to this, unless it is feasible and/or legal to post notices giving a closing date after which no further allegations will be pursued. But failing that any future Head Master will view his In-Tray with concern every day.

David :shock:

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by postwarblue » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:59 am

I suspect that some of the victims have put as much distance between them and CH as possible and so will not be reached from any mailing list CH or CHOBA has. Plus some will see the incredible ordeal of being questioned, probably aggressively, in court, as just too much.
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Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:14 am

postwarblue wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:59 am
I suspect that some of the victims have put as much distance between them and CH as possible and so will not be reached from any mailing list CH or CHOBA has. Plus some will see the incredible ordeal of being questioned, probably aggressively, in court, as just too much.
There has been a sea change and advocates are not supposed to cross examine either aggressively or up hill and down dale.

Sadly it seems that those strictures may not have been adhered to in the Husband/Dobbie trial.

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by richardb » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:15 am

David,

We can only have a bottom line which will be within the knowledge of the school.

I accept it isn't perfect but it is the best we can do.

Richard

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by TMF » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:18 pm

I was never aware of Webb's nickname.
My recollection is that we were told that they had left.
There were others.
Howard, on the "There were others" sentence (i.e. teachers who left suddenly with no explanation) - please make sure that you have mentioned these events to management/administrators. Noting that person X left suddenly is not disloyal or slanderous it is just a fact.

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by harryh » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:21 pm

The authorities are fully aware.
I am not sure why you think they would not be aware.

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by TMF » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:25 pm

I am not sure why you think they would not be aware.
Some from the school are inclined to provide 'explanations' for sudden departures and the school's behavior.

See e.g. 'Golfer's' recent message on probable departure causes for Dobbie...

http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 90#p142289

...Baker's letter about the terrible pressures of the merger leading to Webb's departure for medical reasons...

http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 15#p142434

...and on this thread you take someone to task for observing that the school is uninterested in a court case, change the subject to exam results, don't ask questions about departing colleagues, etc.

http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... 15#p142310

However, if this is true:
The authorities are fully aware.
Ok - that is good!
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Re: Roger Martin

Post by harryh » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:05 pm

TMF Good afternoon.
Are you never satisfied with honest statements?
RichardB Good afternoon.
Please explain to me why you thanked TMF for his post.
I really am at a loss here.
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Re: Roger Martin

Post by TMF » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:43 pm

TMF Good afternoon.
Are you never satisfied with honest statements?
Hi Howard,

How do you know if I am satisfied or not?
How do I know if your statements are honest?
etc.

If I might make a comment - you position things in your comments. E.g. by implying that I am not 'satisfied' or asserting that your statements are 'honest'.

Don't take that as a criticism - this may be just because you are tired or overly upset - or it might be because you have a bias or are 'running interference' - which might have as its origin loyalty to the school, or self interest/bias.

It is, however, true that your 'positioning' invariably serves to minimize concern.

There are other examples of this in your posts. E.g. when I said 'please make sure...' your response was 'the authorities are fully aware' (or similar phrasings. This was an odd/indirect response - because you were being asked to alert management to what you personally knew. Your response was not 'I have already done that' it was the more neutral 'the authorities are fully aware'. How do you know that the authorities are _fully_ aware? If you know everything that the authorities know - you would not be posting on the web. If you told the authorities what you know, why not simply say so. By writing 'fully' - you seem to be indicating all knowledge is already captured and there is nothing more to be learned.

And, you insinuated that even asking about this was questionable to you: 'I am not sure why you think they would not be aware.', you said. (Which I then explained - and you again objected - claiming that I was 'never satisfied' with 'honest statements'.

Anyway, I am very happy that you are here, and happy to learn that 'The authorities are fully aware.'

Let's hope that any sudden departures that the authorities know about are treated appropriately.

Take care.

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by harryh » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:53 pm

As far as I am aware the authorities are aware of all sudden departures in the last 27 years. I just do not know how much more reassuring I can possibly be.

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Re: Roger Martin

Post by J.R. » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:09 pm

harryh wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:05 pm
TMF Good afternoon.
Are you never satisfied with honest statements?
RichardB Good afternoon.
Please explain to me why you thanked TMF for his post.
I really am at a loss here.
Right. "Listen very carefully, I shall say zeees only once !" (God Bless good old British Comedy)

Howard: I have never met you. I have met your son 'The Great Plum'. I greatly sympathise with what you and your family must be going through at this present time. I also admire your posts on here as a recently ex member of staff.

In my view this should NOT be a war, (debate), between staff and OB's. At least you take the time to contribute to the discussion which is more than some retired ex-members of staff have, probably on legal advice.

Quite a few OB's have commented on here on what they experienced at Horsham, as is their right. I was fortunate enough to have departed CH before all the disclosed cases came to light. I am seriously starting to feel guilty that I wasn't there at the time. At least I would have been able to do something, which I would have undoubtably done !!!
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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