Karim's sentence hearing

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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richardb
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by richardb »

The emphasis now is not on individual sentences correct but more on totality, i.e the total sentence has to be correct.

As you say, offensive.
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by RemedyLaw »

postwarblue wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:19 pm Making the first sentences concurrent seems to me to be wrong and shows insufficient respect for those victims, but I suppose there are legal reasons for this? In my view Karim should atone for each victim in turn (and with a longer stretch for each).

Out in five (or a bit less) and back to being the hard-done-by luvvie of that revolting tennis club seems hardly to meet the case.
The first three counts were all linked to one individual and all attributed to the same incident (an escalation of seriousness leading to count 3)
richardb
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by richardb »

That makes perfect sense.
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J.R.
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by J.R. »

I would like to comment further, but being a moderator and not a politically correct, person. I'll keep my powder dry for now.
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LHA
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by LHA »

the latest statement post Karim jailing by Simon Reid simply refers to an earlier statement he made. It doesn't even purport to be by him.
richardb
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by richardb »

He is getting complacent as he thinks it is nearly over.
harryh
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by harryh »

Who precisely are you accusing of becoming complacent?
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by LHA »

harryh wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:30 pm Who precisely are you accusing of becoming complacent?
Richard expresses his view about Simon Reid I think.

If you think that is unfair Howard, please can I ask if you think

Bob Sillett

Elizabeth Cairncross and

Richard Poulton

should make a public statement about what occurred on their watch. All gave evidence or were named in court.
harryh
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by harryh »

Yes, I think it is unfair.
The public statement might well follow Gary Dobbie's sentencing.
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by LHA »

Your commitment to the schools admirable Howard, I remember you from CH and you are a really decent guy. I believe you have just started a well deserved retirement - I hope it is fulfilled and happy.

But I think you risk underestimating the extent of the past failing and the current anger. No one thinks there is the serial abuse of the recent past now at CH, and it is obvious Simon Reid would take action to tackle abuse if he became aware of it. But that's only the start. Simon Reid can't force Sillett, Cairncross and Poulton to speak, as ex employees, but he could make a public statement saying they are a disgrace, and no longer welcome on CH property or at CH events. I doubt anything like that will happen, and Dobbie's sentencing§§§§ may be months away as other allegations against him are investigated. Then no doubt excuses about not prejudicing the other trial. When in fact that won't happen as bluntly put no one with a CH connection is going to serve on a jury for any CH related trial, and judges making appeal and sentencing decisions obviously won't be influenced by statements from CH.

Have a read of these reports (NB they are a distressing read, right from the start).

CH deserves its very own version I'm afraid.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/news/inquiry-p ... d-downside
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by sejintenej »

richardb wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:05 pm He is getting complacent as he thinks it is nearly over.
It might appear that way but he is in a Catch 22 situation. What can he say/write which would satisfy everybody given that it is only now, decades later, that a fuller story comes out of what was happening behind closed doors? He is not the magician who who can go back in time and stop the attacks before they even took place but there seem to be those who are close to blaming him for not stopping them.
He and the council can only promise that systems have been tightened up so much that a repeat of that type of assault would be close to impossible. (Close because absolute certainty is impossible). He cannot even publicly promise to arrange counselling for the victims or he would be overwhelmed by those who had their knuckles raapped or felt the cane for one stroke. I do hope he is contacting all those whose names have become known to the police or from internal enquiries.

Then there were those other things which went on which were kept hushhush but which were beneficial (MidA will understand macumba for example). The exercises carried out by the Civil Defence section of the CCF would, in these days, be instantly condemned by the trash mags as being dangerous but you ended up with about 40 people endowed with considerable knowledge of first aid and different forms of rescue.The trash papers will next be asking why every pupil was not innoculated for smallpox in 1797 - you simply cannot please everybody and you cannot cover every eventuality.
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richardb
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by richardb »

I agree you can't cover everything but if you can't say something worthwhile then don't say anything at all.

Picking up on what you say, the school may well find itself in hot water for corporal punishment. It is a subject that rouses a lot of people to anger. It is apparent that some take the view that it was used indiscriminately.
Scazza
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by Scazza »

Jim Rayner wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:02 pm And another copy & paste from the Headmaster https://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/chr ... 202018.pdf
I prefer straighter talking but Reid's statement does infer quite a lot. Paraphrasing: "Today at CH pupil welfare is our highest priority. Allegations would be treated very differently. We work closely with local authority child protection. Disclosures are properly recorded. They are referred to police if needed and records retained."

That suggests a lot about what wasn't done in the past. Reid can't openly admit that pupils were failed or the school is liable financially (which it is anyway, so just settle and admit it). Neither can he accuse the SMT of failings or risk libel.

I do get Reid and the schools position but it doesn't make the current situation any more palatable.
richardb
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by richardb »

I agree Scazza but of course the modern regime has been imposed on the school which has been dragged screaming and kicking into the 21st century.

It would be refreshing if former staff who knew the abusers and were colleagues of them came out and disowned them.
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Re: Karim's sentence hearing

Post by Scazza »

richardb wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:40 am I agree Scazza but of course the modern regime has been imposed on the school which has been dragged screaming and kicking into the 21st century.

It would be refreshing if former staff who knew the abusers and were colleagues of them came out and disowned them.
I agree but the first part of that conversation would be for old colleagues to say how shocked they were, how they had no idea this was going on, how they wished they'd spotted the signs.... Really?

Far easier to keep your head below the parapet and get on with a comfortably wealthy retirement.
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