Freemasons and questions to answer

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

Moderator: Moderators

charlesr
2nd Former
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:30 am
Real Name: Charles Rogers
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by charlesr » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:41 pm

Jim Rayner wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 pm
Not that I’ve ever been invited to join either of them, or the masons or the Morris Men or even MI5.

Where did it all go wrong?
Me neither. I put it down to having a long-held dislike of having to wear funny clothes. (Wonder where I got that from?)
These users thanked the author charlesr for the post:
Avon (Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:56 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
Charles Rogers (LHA 67-70; ThB 70-75)

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3357
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by sejintenej » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:45 pm

jakew wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:20 pm
Yes, I was approached again later in life by a good friend unconnected with CH. I didn't sign up, thanks in part I suppose to CH-fostered prejudice about freemasonry.

What he suggested at the time was that the real reason for all the secrecy was to conceal the fact that it was really just a drinking club, rather than a grand international conspiracy, but that the wives would never let them go to the lodge if they knew the truth.
I have never been approached and have no leanings that way. I have knowingly met two masons under totally different circumstances - one is named in this thread and is probably above reproach. The other (since departed) led a lodge whose aim was to rid the UK of all catholics and fenians. .
‘So, still happy you voted for my namesake who took away your health insurance, raised your taxes and should turn out to be a mental patient?’

User avatar
J.R.
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15325
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:53 pm
Real Name: John Rutley
Location: Dorking, Surrey
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by J.R. » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:05 pm

I was reliably informed this afternoon by an OB and Mason, that they still exist but tend to keep on the quiet side. Hardly surprising given the current situation.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

User avatar
J.R.
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15325
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:53 pm
Real Name: John Rutley
Location: Dorking, Surrey
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by J.R. » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:15 pm

And as an afterthought, the police, (and especially The Met) PLUS the Judiciary are rampantly controlled by 'The Square' as far as promotion or advancement is concerned.

No comments about dirty aprons or a frayed raised trouser leg PLEASE.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

User avatar
Jolyon
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:14 am
Location: Ely
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by Jolyon » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:30 pm

J.R. wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:15 pm
And as an afterthought, the police, (and especially The Met) PLUS the Judiciary are rampanty controlled by 'The Square' as far as promotion or advancement is concerned.
Yep, that’s not concerning at all around the topic of criminal accountability and shielding people from consequences.
These users thanked the author Jolyon for the post:
richardb (Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:21 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
In a little place in our hearts we never leave

Jim Rayner
LE (Little Erasmus)
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:49 pm
Real Name: Jim Rayner
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by Jim Rayner » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:34 pm

J.R. wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:15 pm
And as an afterthought, the police, (and especially The Met) PLUS the Judiciary are rampanty controlled by 'The Square' as far as promotion or advancement is concerned.

No comments about dirty aprons or a frayed raised trouser leg PLEASE.
I would have thought (and hoped) that the gradual process of women being able to compete on equal terms in traditionally male-dominated spheres would have diluted the power of freemasonry. After all the President of the Supreme Court and the commissioner of the Met are both women and presumably not on the square. And the current Home Secretary is a Muslim, while his two predecessors were Amber Rudd and Theresa May. Before that they were Alan Johnson, Jacqui Smith and John Reid. I’d be astonished if any of them were Freemasons.

At the more Guardian end of the spectrum, the secretive Common Purpose has a sinister influence over much of the public sector including education, though probably not independent schools like CH.
These users thanked the author Jim Rayner for the post:
richardb (Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:49 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
LHA 67-70; ThA 70-74

yamaha
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by yamaha » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:10 pm

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer
Post by Jim Rayner » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:34 pm

I would have thought (and hoped) that the gradual process of women being able to compete on equal terms in traditionally male-dominated spheres would have diluted the power of freemasonry. After all the President of the Supreme Court and the commissioner of the Met are both women and presumably not on the square.
Hey ho! So much for that PC theory:

Image

https://www.owf.org.uk/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry_and_women
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyyLdfH6XBA

Image

Jim Rayner
LE (Little Erasmus)
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:49 pm
Real Name: Jim Rayner
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by Jim Rayner » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:05 pm

OK , well I see your point. But actually there aren’t many of them. They claim just 6,000 members. The Ramblers have 107,000 and even the LibDems 100,000, and neither of them have much effective influence.
LHA 67-70; ThA 70-74

scrub
UF (Upper Fourth)
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:11 pm
Real Name: Tim
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by scrub » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:16 pm

True, but raw numbers are irrelevant unless they hold positions of influence.
A couple of billion people would prefer not to live in a nuclear wasteland but it only takes one unhinged orange muppet to put their finger on the right button to make it happen anyway.
ThB 89-91, PeA 93-96

Avon
Deputy Grecian
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:39 pm
Real Name: Ed Bell
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by Avon » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:25 am

yamaha wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:10 pm

https://www.owf.org.uk/
I see what you are getting at. In another twenty years or so we shan’t have a problem.

yamaha
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by yamaha » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:16 am

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer
Post by Avon » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:25 am

In another twenty years or so we shan’t have a problem.
Image

User avatar
jtaylor
Forum Administrator
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:32 am
Real Name: Julian Taylor
Location: Wantage, OXON
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 209 times
Contact:

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by jtaylor » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:07 am

Having known a couple of Masons (one of which was my CH Presenting Governor, who was an amazingly generous, caring and highly respected businessman) my overwhelming experience has been a positive one of the things they do, and the impact they have on charity. I read a stat which said that their contributions to charity rank second only to the National Lottery....just googled for that to confirm it, couldn't see any stats, but found this: https://mcf.org.uk/

As an organisation they require a belief in a god - it doesn't matter which one - I vaguely recall that discussion of religion and ?politics too aren't allowed at meetings? They seem to be primarily about doing good deeds and charitable work, and it seems they're opening up their doors to become more open, with new lodges devoted to more modern interests.

There's a big focus on dining events, similarly to The Amicable Society of Blues, which I believe is the world's oldest dining club?
I was kindly invited as a guest to one of the Amicables dinners many years ago by my Presenting Governor. I went, and it was an amazing dinner and good company - but all a bit too formal for me, London-centric, and would have been expensive for a night out! It definitely wasn't for me, too much black-tie, formality, ritual etc. I'm not sure if there's any link between The Amicables and Masonry?

There was an interesting if slightly bemusing series on TV recently about the Masons, which was interesting and quite amusing in places:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6743832/

Julian
(And, no, I'm absolutely NOT a Mason, and having been subtly invited a couple of times have never pursued it, as just not my thing - just wanting to share the positive side of it from what I've heard, and the few Masons I've known.)
These users thanked the author jtaylor for the post:
Ever Bluer (Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:16 am)
Rating: 5.88%
Julian Taylor-Gadd
Leigh Hunt 1985-1992
Image
Founder of The Unofficial CH Forum
http://www.grovegeeks.co.uk - IT Support and website design for home, small businesses and charities.

yamaha
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by yamaha » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:53 am

Also - Poulton/Cairncross were likely telling the truth when they said Karim was treated leniently because he was an OB; a fraternity/sorority to which we all belong.
There are many powerful cliques in Britain that promote &/or support each other, Etonians in Westminster and the City, Oxford grads in Whitehall, Opus Dei, ExArmy, Common Purpose and many more.
Unless there is knowledge that Karim is a freemason this seems a fruitless thread of discussion. Even then it would still only be conjecture that a masonic connection was influential in the school's actions, and his one out of five cases so far where their actions were lacking.

User avatar
Jolyon
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:14 am
Location: Ely
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by Jolyon » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:29 pm

yamaha wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:53 am
Unless there is knowledge that Karim is a freemason this seems a fruitless thread of discussion.
My original point is:
1) Pressure was applied, secrecy seemingly more important than justice or child welfare.

2) The individual concerned is well known as a Freemason.

3) Masonic links were a factor in staff selection.

Is there proof that individuals were shuffled around the private school system leaving hushed up scandals behind them? No. Is it possible. Yes, tragically. The Church admitted that pattern. Is it beyond the realms of another male* organisation with secrets?





* I encountered a huge gathering of female Freemasons in Birmingham at a hotel by the NEC, but in the main it’s a club run by men for the benefit of themselves.
In a little place in our hearts we never leave

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 321 times
Been thanked: 233 times

Re: Freemasons and questions to answer

Post by richardb » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:36 pm

The alternative explanation is that staff were clueless when it came to dealing with these matters and/or threats that a pupils name would get out were a form of bullying. It could of course have been a combination of the two.

The aim was to protect the school.

In due course hopefully all will be explained.

Post Reply