How far did the rot spread?

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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Janey Jam-Jar
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by Janey Jam-Jar »

Yamaha, my feelings are running fairly high at the moment. Being told my opinions are naive or ridiculous is how I was treated when I was younger and subsequently at a massively critical moment at school that ultimately went tits up. I don't appreciate it as an adult, but now I have the nerve to say so (progress!). I do admit to having knee-jerk emotional reactions and I've tried to keep them off the forum and work it out privately to a more useful or measured response. I'm personally not comfortable with the idea of children away from home at school for long periods - apart from, as I said in my post, where there is neglect or danger - but I accept other people think differently. (There may be an argument for 6th form weekly or full boarding but that's a separate debate for a different thread.) I've found Nick Duffell's books really useful in negotiating my way through my experiences of being at private schools and away from home at age 11. (I was at a pretty tough prep school from the age of 8 which has also influenced my formative experiences.)

There will be a middle ground somewhere that each of us will individually establish, where the various realities of our lives at CH will sit with what has been revealed over the last two years or so. I'm just not there at the moment. I appreciate reading that other forum members are there, and how people are managing this very conflicting time.
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by Janey Jam-Jar »

yamaha wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:31 pm
Re: How far did the rot spread?
by Janey Jam-Jar » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:37 am

Fair enough if you disagree. Don't tell me I'm naive and my opinion is ridiculous though.
Sorry Janey Jam Jar.

When my kids left enthusiastically each term for their happy and successful boarding school careers they didn’t give the impression that they were being “removed from their home”, as you emotively put it in your lame attempt to seed a violent image.
I'm not trying to seed a violent image. I'm genuinely glad that you and your children have been able to make choices that you are all happy with.
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by rockfreak »

If sending children away from home to be brought up is such a good idea why do other countries not do it? Especially the more developed countries of western and northern Europe that we might compare ourselves to who, almost without exception, have better social cohesion - and indeed more successful economies. I wonder if the fact that there is less inequality in those countries has to do with a more inclusive attitude, for instance a belief that everyone should get a roughly similar education in a one-tier system and that people should pay taxes towards it according to their means. Now that last is an interesting point isn't it. It seems to me to reflect the biblical Parable of the Widow's Mite, something that might appeal to all those who pride themselves on having had a Christian education at CH. The private schools, CH included, are just prolonging the class system that exists at every level in our society and which has been particularly promoted by Thatcherism which aims to divide and rule and have the less fortunate fighting like cats in a sack. CH itself is merely a leftover of Victorian patronage and Victoria is no longer on the throne - although the modern day monarchs will of course always send their children to Eton.
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by jtaylor »

Unfortunately the drive always seems to be to abolish the public schools, rather than bring all the other schools up to the same level, both academically and socially.
Often driven by jealousy it seems. Interestingly, some comprehensive schools have adopted the “house” system, with internal pride and competition - slowly inheriting the best bits of public schools?
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rockfreak
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by rockfreak »

Ha Ha! Same old right-wing crap. Politics of envy! Are you prepared to pay the tax necessary Julian to give all the schools the facilities that the public schools have? Where do we start? What about the playing fields? The state schools might have decent playing fields but I have a feeling that someone once had the bright idea of selling them off. Who was it? My memory is a bit dodgy these days. Oh yes, now it comes to me. It was Margaret Thatcher. And what are these standards you talk about? Sending your children away from home to be abused by strangers? Very good! Character forming I suppose. That was always the get-out when I was younger. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's reading pompous, idiotic, politically naive excuse-making posts like yours that reminds me just what a crap education the boarding schools give.
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by jtaylor »

rockfreak wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm Ha Ha! Same old right-wing crap. Politics of envy! Are you prepared to pay the tax necessary Julian to give all the schools the facilities that the public schools have? Where do we start? What about the playing fields? The state schools might have decent playing fields but I have a feeling that someone once had the bright idea of selling them off. Who was it? My memory is a bit dodgy these days. Oh yes, now it comes to me. It was Margaret Thatcher. And what are these standards you talk about? Sending your children away from home to be abused by strangers? Very good! Character forming I suppose. That was always the get-out when I was younger. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's reading pompous, idiotic, politically naive excuse-making posts like yours that reminds me just what a crap education the boarding schools give.
That’s far more binary than necessary, and than I was being - it’s about taking the BEST bits, as I said, which can be the passion for success, celebrating genuine success, recognising individual differences, strengths and attributes. That doesn’t have to mean more money, facilities, land etc. Very easy to get political, and no need to - it’s not that black and white, it’s about what’s done every day in the school, the culture and attitude of the teachers etc.
No point in a race-to-the-bottom.

The more I understand about just about anything in life, the more I realise and understand how complex it is compared to my initial reaction, and the less binary it becomes. I’m sure there’s a pithy quote out there which someone said along those lines!
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by jtaylor »

And yes, I would happily pay that tax if i felt it would be appropriately used, as the benefit of good education is way beyond almost any other expenditure, and returns ten-fold what you put into it in economic benefit and welfare long term. A fantastic virtuous circle.
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time please
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by time please »

rockfreak wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm Ha Ha! Same old right-wing crap. Politics of envy! Are you prepared to pay the tax necessary Julian to give all the schools the facilities that the public schools have? Where do we start? What about the playing fields? The state schools might have decent playing fields but I have a feeling that someone once had the bright idea of selling them off. Who was it? My memory is a bit dodgy these days. Oh yes, now it comes to me. It was Margaret Thatcher. And what are these standards you talk about? Sending your children away from home to be abused by strangers? Very good! Character forming I suppose. That was always the get-out when I was younger. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's reading pompous, idiotic, politically naive excuse-making posts like yours that reminds me just what a crap education the boarding schools give.


My parents did not send me to a public school to be abused as well you know so that to start with is an appalling statement. My parents sent me to CH ( nobody thought I would pass the exam ) because it was seen at least in the sixties as the chance of a lifetime. Coming from a family where my father was a pilot for Bomber Command and finished the war with horrendous physical and mental illness he then served 12 years in Germany until finally dismissed in 1957. Our family was supported by the RAF Benevolent Fund so perhaps my getting a place at CH in some way improved my fathers mental stability.

But please stop the arguing about public versus state schools. There is room for both. Remember that CH is different from most other public schools in as much that it gives a chance to so many children to parents without money. If the standard of teaching is better at public schools then surely it is the duty of the government to raise the standard in the state schools.

These posts are about the abuse I and sadly others experienced at CH. That is something we live with daily, it affects us in so many many ways. But what is most important is that we Old Blues do whatever it takes to make sure that coming generations of children are able to live and learn at CH without fear.

Obviously because of what happened to me caused the fact that I hated the place. But it was not the school or the uniform or the food or the marching. Not even the cold dormitories. It was a handful of adults and older pupils that caused that hate. CH was willing to give me a chance.
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by rockfreak »

Why should we stop arguing about state schools versus public schools? It seems to me the very crux of the matter. This country spends less on state education as a proportion of GDP than most other developed countries and it shows. Of course money is an issue. To argue otherwise is disingenuous. If money doesn't matter then let's see what happens if we strip CH of its donations, bursaries etc. Where then the extensive playing fields, the state of the art drama blocks, and all the other extra stuff that the average state school doesn't have?
And are all the teachers at CH inspired or are some just mediocre, as was my experience at the school (admittedly years ago). As so many political and economic commentators are starting to venture, at some point the rich in this country will have to pay a lot more tax by one means or another and the tax havens will have to be dealt with. This latter is the point where I first came onto the site with a Politics thread and some comment about UK Uncut of which I was then a member. And what angered me right from the start was the supercilious and often idiotic responses, which made me conclude that a boarding school education is not necessarily a free pass into intellectual nous or indeed common sense.
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by coliemore »

time please wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:29 am
rockfreak wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm Ha Ha! Same old right-wing crap. Politics of envy! Are you prepared to pay the tax necessary Julian to give all the schools the facilities that the public schools have? Where do we start? What about the playing fields? The state schools might have decent playing fields but I have a feeling that someone once had the bright idea of selling them off. Who was it? My memory is a bit dodgy these days. Oh yes, now it comes to me. It was Margaret Thatcher. And what are these standards you talk about? Sending your children away from home to be abused by strangers? Very good! Character forming I suppose. That was always the get-out when I was younger. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's reading pompous, idiotic, politically naive excuse-making posts like yours that reminds me just what a crap education the boarding schools give.


My parents did not send me to a public school to be abused as well you know so that to start with is an appalling statement. My parents sent me to CH ( nobody thought I would pass the exam ) because it was seen at least in the sixties as the chance of a lifetime. Coming from a family where my father was a pilot for Bomber Command and finished the war with horrendous physical and mental illness he then served 12 years in Germany until finally dismissed in 1957. Our family was supported by the RAF Benevolent Fund so perhaps my getting a place at CH in some way improved my fathers mental stability.

But please stop the arguing about public versus state schools. There is room for both. Remember that CH is different from most other public schools in as much that it gives a chance to so many children to parents without money. If the standard of teaching is better at public schools then surely it is the duty of the government to raise the standard in the state schools.

These posts are about the abuse I and sadly others experienced at CH. That is something we live with daily, it affects us in so many many ways. But what is most important is that we Old Blues do whatever it takes to make sure that coming generations of children are able to live and learn at CH without fear.

Obviously because of what happened to me caused the fact that I hated the place. But it was not the school or the uniform or the food or the marching. Not even the cold dormitories. It was a handful of adults and older pupils that caused that hate. CH was willing to give me a chance.
I am very appreciative of the opportunity that CH provided. And it is a great benefit being part of the global Old Blue community. Sadly something is still amiss in the culture/ethos on child protection and many strange past practices that are unhealed - warranting a Truth & Reconciliation" Inquiry as proposed as "A Way Ahead" by Foureyes in a separate thread. This proposal could be progressed via an Old Blue (thousand-strong?) "Petition to Council" co-ordinated by Foureyes and the Forum Moderator - by a London-based small group of Old Blues. "Petition 1552" in 2015 is producing changes. "Petition 2018" could also be a great benefit to the Foundation.
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by jtaylor »

David - why don’t you lead this?
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by DeletedAccount »

Time Please's comments, and some others made me realise that [b]one of the voices that has not been heard or particularly considered is that of parents and guardians[/b].

Understandably, on this forum we have very much looked at the whole issue from an OB perspective (and to some extent, from a teacher perspective).

There must be so many parents and guardians who sent their children to CH during the period reading media reports with absolute shock, horror and, I would imagine, growing fury.

I struggle to imagine how I would feel if such events were reported at schools where I had sent my children, both with regard to the criminal offences, but also, in some cases, the school's handling of the events.

I expect legally that it is not a straighforward space, but one could expect strong demands for accountability, explanation and clarity.

Made me think.. .
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by richardb »

My own take is that what has got a lot of OBs worked up is: (i) many of us realise it could have been us; and (ii) we know that although it wasn't us, it was probably people who we were friends with at school.

If we all feel like that, what must parents think who actually made the decision to send their children to the school because they thought it was safe?
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by marty »

richardb wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:13 am My own take is that what has got a lot of OBs worked up is: (i) many of us realise it could have been us; and (ii) we know that although it wasn't us, it was probably people who we were friends with at school.

If we all feel like that, what must parents think who actually made the decision to send their children to the school because they thought it was safe?
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Re: How far did the rot spread?

Post by yamaha »

Re: How far did the rot spread?
Post by DickT_PeB » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:53 am

...

There must be so many parents and guardians who sent their children to CH during the period reading media reports with absolute shock, horror and, I would imagine, growing fury.
According to some people on here, parents are complicit who "remove children from their homes" (JJ-J), or "send children away from home to be abused by strangers" (the latter hopefully the nadir of Rockfreak's meagre intellectual output).
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