A party favourite

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richardb
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A party favourite

Post by richardb » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:25 pm

I qualified very nearly 34 years ago and was increasingly shunted into criminal defence work.

If I had a pound for every time that I have been asked (usually at parties) how I can defend someone who I know is guilty, I would have at least a tenner. My glib response has usually been that I get paid and I go home.

In recent years I have increasingly defended in cases where sexual misconduct is alleged. In reality there is only one way to deal with such cases: (i) try to flush out material which discredits the complainant; and (ii) bombard the jury with evidence of the good character of the Defendant to portray him in a favourable light.

In cases of historic sexual abuse, there is one core issue. Why?

I always ask clients: (i) why has this person made this allegation;and (ii) why have they made it now? Rarely do I ever get a sensible motive why the allegation has been invented.

Husband was asked this very issue in cross examination. His answer was:""I don't know why (the alleged victim) has brought these allegations against me.". I knew then that he would be convicted as the only realistic explanation for the complaint was that it was true.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/j ... 01996.html

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Re: A party favourite

Post by DazedandConfused » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:05 pm

Playing devil’s advocate (and NOT specifically talking about this case), what possible sensible motive is there? Either it is true, the victim thinks it is true but is mistaken or the victim is lying, either for their own benefit or to cause harm to the accused.

Even if the latter were true, would the defendant sound rational making that argument? Or would they appear callous towards the alleged victim and potentially make themselves look worse in the eyes of the jury?

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Re: A party favourite

Post by richardb » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:18 pm

Very often the Defendant says it was all lies. Or motivated by money. Or revenge for something.

I find it difficult personally to believe that there are as many liars out there as we would have to believe, if they were all telling the truth.

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Re: A party favourite

Post by DazedandConfused » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:41 pm

I agree with you. It’s hard to imagine so many people would willingly put themselves through the ordeal of reporting to the police, lengthy interviews, the risk of not being believed or the CPS not prosecuting, then the trial itself, all motivated by money or revenge.

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Re: A party favourite

Post by richardb » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:50 pm

Most compensation payments come from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority. Such payments used to be assessed on a proper basis such as applies to damages for personal injuries.

About 20 years ago the scheme was changed and is now tariff based. The awards are not large enough to justify the grief involved in the whole process.

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Re: A party favourite

Post by J.R. » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:39 pm

DazedandConfused wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:41 pm
I agree with you. It’s hard to imagine so many people would willingly put themselves through the ordeal of reporting to the police, lengthy interviews, the risk of not being believed or the CPS not prosecuting, then the trial itself, all motivated by money or revenge.
Believe you me, the CPS will normally only proceed with a case if they are 110% sure of a conviction these days.
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Re: A party favourite

Post by sejintenej » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:16 pm

J.R. wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:39 pm
DazedandConfused wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:41 pm
I agree with you. It’s hard to imagine so many people would willingly put themselves through the ordeal of reporting to the police, lengthy interviews, the risk of not being believed or the CPS not prosecuting, then the trial itself, all motivated by money or revenge.
Believe you me, the CPS will normally only proceed with a case if they are 110% sure of a conviction these days.
Dazed and Confused; are you me?
and you John. Back when you and I was nippers if the local peeler caught you scrumping or summat loike that 'egave you a clip over the lugole there and then and you knew that heaven help you if he caught you again! You knew you had done wrong and that yourd dad would probably tan your hide for that as well. You learned good from evil.

These 'ere do-gooders (may they find a nice warm bed in Hades) have upset the applecart. Kids now wait mothhs, I suspect a year, until they have forgotten what they did and get a "You were naughty - don't do it again, now go home". These CPS blokes and blokeeses seem to sit in ivory palaces and ignore the realities of the street and sem to let off too many of those who were actually guilty. Bring back 24 hour courts and if they have been arrested let the judge decide, not some bookworm in a back office.
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Re: A party favourite

Post by Janey Jam-Jar » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:43 pm

These 'ere do-gooders (may they find a nice warm bed in Hades) have upset the applecart.
sejintenej, why so disparaging about 'do-gooders'? They'll be the ones sitting with victims of abuse, rape and other trauma, listening to the gory bits that would make most people turn and run the other way, supporting and finding ways forward.

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Re: A party favourite

Post by rockfreak » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:31 pm

Sejintenej is disparaging about many things and there is little rhyme or reason. I suspect he would be a good case for Nick Duffell to examine.

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Re: A party favourite

Post by sejintenej » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:58 pm

Janey Jam-Jar wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:43 pm
These 'ere do-gooders (may they find a nice warm bed in Hades) have upset the applecart.
sejintenej, why so disparaging about 'do-gooders'? They'll be the ones sitting with victims of abuse, rape and other trauma, listening to the gory bits that would make most people turn and run the other way, supporting and finding ways forward.
CJ. I have come across more than a few in my time both within and without their profession. My post reflects my experiences
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Re: A party favourite

Post by Janey Jam-Jar » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:44 pm

sejintenej wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:58 pm
Janey Jam-Jar wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:43 pm
These 'ere do-gooders (may they find a nice warm bed in Hades) have upset the applecart.
sejintenej, why so disparaging about 'do-gooders'? They'll be the ones sitting with victims of abuse, rape and other trauma, listening to the gory bits that would make most people turn and run the other way, supporting and finding ways forward.
CJ. I have come across more than a few in my time both within and without their profession. My post reflects my experiences
Fair enough.

I'll continue with my do-goodery.

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J.R.
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Re: A party favourite

Post by J.R. » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:49 pm

There are certainly some good 'do-gooders' and there are plenty of mis-guided 'do gooders'

The late Lord Longford being a prime example. (Isn't it good to know you can't defame the dead ?)

Myra Hindley
and Ian Brady escaped the drop by some months. (Unfortunately, in my view !!)
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Re: A party favourite

Post by richardb » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:52 pm

Does telling you that you can't defame the dead make me a do gooder JR ? 😂

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Re: A party favourite

Post by J.R. » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:16 pm

Only in Lord Longford's eyes, I think !!

:roll:
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