Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

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sejintenej
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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by sejintenej » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:16 pm

VerisonaLaw wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:46 am

It is a shame at that point he did not wish to reveal the extent of the abuse to save putting the others through the trauma of having to disclose as a result of original conviction.
I don't know if it is standard practice country wide but round here the judge is informed of any defendant's prior convictions at some stage prior to sentencing. In one case I am thinking of the judge did preface his sentencing with words along the lines of "in view of your previous convictions ......" though no details of those convictions were disclosed at any time. (The defendant had changed his plea to "guilty" in front of us)

As an aside, as a juror I was surprised at the decisions of judges regarding peripherals etc. in the court; I am NOT commenting on the taking of evidence, pleas etc. but other factors which were a total waste of the court's time.
For example the CPS did not have a copy and was allowing the victim of the crime to bring to court all the electronic evidence; the victim simply didn't bring it. That was disclosed after a jury had been chosen, sworn in and the prosecution should have made his opening presentation. Without the slightest glimmer of annoyance the judge simply postponed the case to a later date.
There were several other situations of like strangeness even within that particular fortnight in one case over many hours not one but at various times three jurors declared that thwey knew someone named by the Counsel for the prosecution. After the first two cases the judge called for a new jury (ie the old one but the subject one replaced) but in the third case he specified that no one who had been sworn in before could be called - what was wrong with us? I was happy - the case was scheduled for two weeks and lasted far longer, the jurors being excused for life!

OTOH the judge's attitude and comments to jury members was very pleasant and positive.
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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by VerisonaLaw » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:54 am

sejintenej wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:16 pm
VerisonaLaw wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:46 am

It is a shame at that point he did not wish to reveal the extent of the abuse to save putting the others through the trauma of having to disclose as a result of original conviction.
I don't know if it is standard practice country wide but round here the judge is informed of any defendant's prior convictions at some stage prior to sentencing. In one case I am thinking of the judge did preface his sentencing with words along the lines of "in view of your previous convictions ......" though no details of those convictions were disclosed at any time. (The defendant had changed his plea to "guilty" in front of us)

As an aside, as a juror I was surprised at the decisions of judges regarding peripherals etc. in the court; I am NOT commenting on the taking of evidence, pleas etc. but other factors which were a total waste of the court's time.
For example the CPS did not have a copy and was allowing the victim of the crime to bring to court all the electronic evidence; the victim simply didn't bring it. That was disclosed after a jury had been chosen, sworn in and the prosecution should have made his opening presentation. Without the slightest glimmer of annoyance the judge simply postponed the case to a later date.
There were several other situations of like strangeness even within that particular fortnight in one case over many hours not one but at various times three jurors declared that thwey knew someone named by the Counsel for the prosecution. After the first two cases the judge called for a new jury (ie the old one but the subject one replaced) but in the third case he specified that no one who had been sworn in before could be called - what was wrong with us? I was happy - the case was scheduled for two weeks and lasted far longer, the jurors being excused for life!

OTOH the judge's attitude and comments to jury members was very pleasant and positive.
What I meant is that if during his first conviction he had been more willing to accept his abuse was not isolated to a single individual he could have disclosed abuse he had carried out to others. This would have reduced the stress and anguish those who had to come forward, be interviewed and await his plea ( a two year process)

Whilst i cannot read the mind of the man, there was evidently some hope on Webb's part that others would not come forward and he had 'got away with it' rather lightly.

it is sadly not the first and last time I will see this in my profession.

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by postwarblue » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:10 am

JR, re your post above, all cases start in the magistrates' court. For a serious offence a not guilty plea will usually be sent to Crown Court for trial. A guilty plea will go there for sentencing; so also a finding of guilty to a not guilty plea where the District Judge or the magistrates consider their powers of punishment are inadequate.
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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by J.R. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:51 am

postwarblue wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:10 am
JR, re your post above, all cases start in the magistrates' court. For a serious offence a not guilty plea will usually be sent to Crown Court for trial. A guilty plea will go there for sentencing; so also a finding of guilty to a not guilty plea where the District Judge or the magistrates consider their powers of punishment are inadequate.
My apologies Robert. I should have realised that being an ex serving officer.

I mis-read an earlier post.
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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by VerisonaLaw » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:35 pm

What I find odd is that it shows the sentencing to have also taken place at the Mags, when this would ordinarily have been transferred to the Crown owing to the Mags sentencing restrictions. I can only opine that there was a CC judge sitting at Brighton Mags..?

Brighton Magistrates Court Court Case(s) Defendant(s) Status(es)
Court 3 T20150086 PETER JOHN HOWARD WEBB For Sentence - Case Started 22/04/2015 11:09
For Sentence - Case Closed 22/04/2015 11:54

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by J.R. » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:47 am

Any news yet on the application for a court move for the next case ?
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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by VerisonaLaw » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:23 pm

J.R. wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:47 am
Any news yet on the application for a court move for the next case ?
Sentencing adjourned re BURR until the 5 Jan, I will be chipping along.

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by J.R. » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:42 pm

Thanks for the up-dates.
Any further information would be welcome.
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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by richardb » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:19 pm

Burr gets four years too.

Lucky man.

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by richardb » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:51 pm

The West Sussex County Times is reporting that Burr will have an extended licence period of two years.

This means he was dealt with as a "dangerous offender" and given an "extended sentence" because he is still assessed as representing a significant risk of causing serious harm to children.

He will not be released until the Parole Board Sayre is safe and cannot be considered for release until he has served two thirds of the sentence.

So, he cannot apply to the Parole Board until September 2020. He will have to serve at least 32 months but possibly up to the full 48 months of his prison sentence. He will then be on licence for 2 years after his prison sentence ends and at risk of recall to prison.

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by J.R. » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:13 pm

I can only assume the two sentences passed were in my view lenient, because of their age. Or maybe they were Masons !!!

Two down, literally) and two to go.
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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by Avon » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:37 pm

J.R. wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:13 pm
I can only assume the two sentences passed were in my view lenient, because of their age. Or maybe they were Masons !!!

Two down, literally) and two to go.
I thought three to go? Or is the power of the Square even greater???

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by J.R. » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 am

Yes, it is three. My mistake.

VerisonaLaw is very much in the know with the court lists. If these three stick to 'not guilty' pleas, it could be some time yet.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by J.R. » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:07 am

J.R. wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 am
Yes, it is three. My mistake.

VerisonaLaw is very much in the know with the court lists, so we'll wait and se. If these three stick to 'not guilty' pleas, it could be some time yet.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Date of sentencing of Webb and Burr

Post by VerisonaLaw » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 pm

richardb wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:51 pm
The West Sussex County Times is reporting that Burr will have an extended licence period of two years.

This means he was dealt with as a "dangerous offender" and given an "extended sentence" because he is still assessed as representing a significant risk of causing serious harm to children.

He will not be released until the Parole Board Sayre is safe and cannot be considered for release until he has served two thirds of the sentence.

So, he cannot apply to the Parole Board until September 2020. He will have to serve at least 32 months but possibly up to the full 48 months of his prison sentence. He will then be on licence for 2 years after his prison sentence ends and at risk of recall to prison.

I attended the hearing and he was originally sentenced to a SHPO and 42 months to serve at least half but parties were recalled for the sentence to be extended by 6 months.

Karim is due for trial in April and Dobbie and Husband in May.

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