CHA versus CHOBA

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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aliburns
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CHA versus CHOBA

Post by aliburns » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:21 pm

I am really disappointed and appalled that the CHA Board has deemed it necessary to revert the CHA name back to its old 'Old Blue' connotation, especially without the members' knowledge. I suspect that the CHOBA will soon revert back to its elitist pretensions.

I was a member of the Committee that disbanded the Old Blues Club and introduced the CHA for very good and sound reasons.

The whole purpose of creating the CHA was to give everyone 'associated' with Christ's Hospital, regardless of whether they went to or worked at the School or not, the chance to be officially accepted as a member of the 'CH Family'. To call it the Christ's Hospital Old Blues' Association excludes those CHA members, or potential members, who did not go to or work at the School, but who do contribute vast amounts to the School both financially and in many other ways. It will also mean that those 'outsiders' will feel uncomfortable about belonging to an organisation that is not designed for them. The name says it all.

I also fail to see how "The Board believes the change will allow the association to be recognized more easily by all those connected to CH." What rubbish! The name 'Christ's Hospital' does that. I know, from experience, that the term 'Old Blues' has to be explained to those people who are only 'associated' with the School!!!

I find it so sad that the Old Blue community cannot and will not accept 'outsiders' into the 'CH Family'. Especially when those 'outsiders' contribute more to CH than most Old Blues.

Would it be too late to add the word "AND" between 'Hopsital' and 'Old', if only to allow non-Old Blues the chance of feeling accepted?

As the Council of Almoners has also voted to allow many more full fee paying pupils - Is there anyone there?!!

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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by cstegerlewis » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:06 pm

Point of order (sort of forum etiquette) - multiple posting of the same issue is not great, as it allows multiple arguments and discussions to form, which leads to duplication and loss of flow to the threads.

Fundamentally agree with your argument though
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englishangel
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by englishangel » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:29 pm

Moved/merged etc.etc.

You are not alone.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3375
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by englishangel » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:52 am

This was posted in 4 different places and I amalgamated them into the "CHA - Discussion" topic yesterday. However that is now tucked away at the bottom of the Index page and I, for one, don't often go down there, so I have brought it back up here.
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NEILL THE NOTORIOUS
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by NEILL THE NOTORIOUS » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:43 am

As I have said before ----- I frankly don't care any more ! :(

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J.R.
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by J.R. » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:38 am

I still prefer CHUBBIE'S

:drinkers:
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aliburns
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by aliburns » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:05 am

POSTINGS

Never having done anything like this before, I was merely wishing to get my message across to as many people as possible - hence the reason for the multiple postings. Shall I now go out and get birched?!!!!!!!!

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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by J.R. » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:08 am

aliburns wrote:POSTINGS

Never having done anything like this before, I was merely wishing to get my message across to as many people as possible - hence the reason for the multiple postings. Shall I now go out and get birched?!!!!!!!!

Not required this time, aliburns !

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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by Richard Ruck » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:38 am

englishangel wrote:This was posted in 4 different places and I amalgamated them into the "CHA - Discussion" topic yesterday.
Not being pedantic (honest!), but shouldn't there be a "CHOBA - Discussion" section now?

I know the change of name has been discussed, but Ali's concerns are certainly worthy of some debate.

However, given that the majority of users of this forum are Old Blues, I've always been a bit surprised at how little serious discussion there is here about the CHA / CHOBA and its role. I suppose that, with all such organisations, the vast majority of members are happy to go with the flow, with only a vocal minority having strong views which they wish to air.

As Neill implied, some are now past caring, and I suspect that, sadly, the majority of CHA /CHOBA members really didn't care that much to begin with. They're happy to get their copies of the Old Blue and Housey, and leave the talking to others.

I wonder if the CHOBA Board or the office have received much feedback about this? Perhaps the next issue of The Old Blue will contain some reaction.
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:25 pm

Richard Ruck wrote:
englishangel wrote:This was posted in 4 different places and I amalgamated them into the "CHA - Discussion" topic yesterday.
Not being pedantic (honest!), but shouldn't there be a "CHOBA - Discussion" section now?

I know the change of name has been discussed, but Ali's concerns are certainly worthy of some debate.

However, given that the majority of users of this forum are Old Blues, I've always been a bit surprised at how little serious discussion there is here about the CHA / CHOBA and its role. I suppose that, with all such organisations, the vast majority of members are happy to go with the flow, with only a vocal minority having strong views which they wish to air.

As Neill implied, some are now past caring, and I suspect that, sadly, the majority of CHA /CHOBA members really didn't care that much to begin with. They're happy to get their copies of the Old Blue and Housey, and leave the talking to others.I wonder if the CHOBA Board or the office have received much feedback about this? Perhaps the next issue of The Old Blue will contain some reaction.
As one to whom this description is accurate it might help if Ali (or somebody) could explain what the fuss is about.

That might read as derogatory but it is not intended to be. I for one genuinely do not know, firstly, why the CH Club was disbanded. The only impact on someone like me being to save a subscription as The Blue (now Old Blue) etc still periodically arrived on the doormat. I remember it being suggested that one could (should) divert the CH Club sub to the BSB which seemed like a good idea at the time.

Secondly, having formed the CHA which, from reading Ali's post, I assume was intended to be more inclusive why create more confusion by changing yet again? Was the CHA not inclusive enough? My admittedly limited perception was that YOBS and the like were participating and house reunions were being organised both of which encompassed a far wider age range than had previously participated in Old Blue events. Even at the age I am now I would probably be considered "young" for some gatherings prior to the CHA judging by photos in The Blue!

So to conclude could somebody give an idiots guide to all this and then perhaps we can offer some constructive comments and suggestions?
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by jhopgood » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:24 pm

Richard Ruck wrote:
englishangel wrote:This was posted in 4 different places and I amalgamated them into the "CHA - Discussion" topic yesterday.
I wonder if the CHOBA Board or the office have received much feedback about this? Perhaps the next issue of The Old Blue will contain some reaction.
After the event, Ali's note is the only one I have seen, and I had planned to include it in the next OB, but since he has seen fit to go public, I am less inclined. If something does go in, it will be a Board decision.

The following is my personal unofficial view, based on the facts as I know them.

Ali states " I was a member of the Committee that disbanded the Old Blues Club and introduced the CHA for very good and sound reasons. "
I was on the Board of the CH Club when it was being "disbanded" and am also on the CHOBA Board, so perhaps have as much insight as anyone.
First, the Old Blues Club NEVER existed. The name was voted on when the CH Club was formed in the 1890's and lost out to the CH Club name. It was never changed.
Ali is a member of the OB rugby club, and may have assumed that the CH Club was similarly named, although, as he was a Board member, I find that difficult to believe. He knows, as well as I do, that the rugby club accepts non OB's and so did the CH Club and now CHA/CHOBA. Indeed, he proposed that certain active members of the rugby club be allowed to be members of the CHA.
The rules require non OB's to be proposed by an existing member with some recommendation to support their cause, and to be honest, I can't remember what happened after his initial request.
I do know that since both CHA/CHOBA has been in existence, all non OB's who have requested being included in the Association and have been proposed with an acceptable recommendation, have been included. To the best of my knowledge, no-one has been rejected outright.
As Ali well knows, one of the driving forces for changing to the CHA, was the fact that it was very difficult to encourage young Old Blues to get/stay involved. The CH Club name suggested old men in armchairs, taking an afternoon nap, covered by occasionally levitating newspapers. (I actually saw this in the English Club in Buenos Aires).When it was realised that the CHA name gave no indication to young Old Blues that it is primarily an Association for Old Blues, it was obvious that something had to be done.
Anyone interested in CH knows very well what an Old Blue is, and I believe that the CHOBA name is far more welcoming than the CH Club name.
What I believe is at the bottom of the problem is the lack of democracy in the Association, and it is here that Ali has a direct responsibility.
It was known all along that the CHA would have to have a nominated Board by its very location within the CH structure. Along with others, both Paddie Drake and I were concerned at this and felt there must be another route. As someone who has been involved in the name change of an international bank in 3 different countries, I claim to have a bit of experience.
When I mentioned this at a CHC Board meeting, Ali, who was sitting next to me, said "We have been working on this for almost 2 years and we are not going to go back now". As a new person on the Board, it was a little like a pat on the head for someone who has no idea what is going on.
My proposal would have been for a simple name change to the club, which would have allowed us to continue being subscription based and hence, able to fund the Blue, retain democracy and also encourage Young Old Blues to get involved.
Ali's comment basically vetoed that idea.
All water under the bridge, and since in my opinion, it is merely a name change, I would like to see us move forward and get to grips with more important matters such as how to help Young Old Blues through a careers network, how to maintain contact with all Old Blues,irrespective of age or sex, how to get those interested on CH and Old Blues involved on a more regular basis etc.
I repeat that this is my reply, not an official one, despite what many may think.
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by Fjgrogan » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:51 pm

There seems to be little point now in endless wrangling about the name change - it is a fait accompli. Personally I felt that the name CHA gave the impression of a more inclusive organisation than CHOBA, and it would have been nice to have a more democratic consultation before announcing the change, but it has happened. Let is rest, and let's turn to the more important issue of making the association, whatever it is called, of more interest to the potential membership of all ages and both sexes. If younger OBs are not getting involved, it is not because they do not like the name. Presumably they see no advantage to membership - surely that is the issue that we should be addressing, not getting hung up on semantics1
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englishangel
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by englishangel » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:15 pm

I think the reasons YOBs don't become involved are:

Initially

a) They are scattered to the four corners of the earth and it costs an arm and a leg to get back for OB day etc.
b) They now have many ways of keeping in touch (Facebook etc.) so don't need the school.

Later

c) They have young families and it costs an arm and a leg to get back for OB day etc.

Middle aged

Get nostalgic and start wondering what it's like at the old place so start coming along.

Those were my reasons anyway (well not (b) but you know what I mean), though I am now on the 'third age'.
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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by NEILL THE NOTORIOUS » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:41 pm

Speaking of "Pedantry"
Should it not be "WE Moderators" ?

(Not Gender- orientated, or Ageist, or Non-PC )

But still "Duck" Neill ! :oops:

I tend to agree with Frances ---- I doubt if the name -change will revert,--- now !

Perhaps we should drop the subject !

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Re: CHA versus CHOBA

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:52 pm

englishangel wrote:I think the reasons YOBs don't become involved are:

Initially

a) They are scattered to the four corners of the earth and it costs an arm and a leg to get back for OB day etc.
b) They now have many ways of keeping in touch (Facebook etc.) so don't need the school.

Later

c) They have young families and it costs an arm and a leg to get back for OB day etc.

Middle aged

Get nostalgic and start wondering what it's like at the old place so start coming along.

Those were my reasons anyway (well not (b) but you know what I mean), though I am now on the 'third age'.
Can't argue with much of that - unfortunately :wink:
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