Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

[John Knight]

Is the vendor an eejit, or what......?!

Wow! - Kerren you will have to tell all the forum what your eBay ID name is!!

[kerrensimmonds]

Ho Ho
Yes, both of them.................

[MarkB]

A nice trophy cup. Here's another by the same maker:

http://eronjohnsonantiques.com/dynapage/IP777.htm

I would guess that the eBay price is about twice what it's worth. The Housey shield could have been engraved any time. It looks crisp so possibly modern.

[kerrensimmonds]

Thank you, Mark (and welcome to the Forum!)
That's a very interesting connection.
I think we all agreed over the last two weeks that this eBay seller was expecting the moon - and even when I gave him some likely provenance which might have enhanced his presentation, he did not use it.
What an .....*****
I wonder if he will get his price the second time round. I am watching this one. Basically I am sure the cup is identical to some of those which we had at Hertford for annual competitions between Houses, and over various sports (though I will admit to not recognising the gilding of the interior) and given the vendor's location AND the coincidence of the Auction House from which he bought it (in a very neglected condition, I understand - which fits) I am pretty sure that there must be a connection between this trophy cup, CH and Miss West who retired as Headmistress from Hertford in 1972. You are right.. it need not necessarily have been engraved in 1805 especially since the photos make the engraving look 'crisp' and 'new'.

[MarkB]

Thank you Kerren, for the welcome. And a very Happy Birthday to you!

[J.R.]

Whilst I can understand people wanting to make a bit of money by using e-bay, I think this trophy sale smacks of gross greed.

It really is a shame the school can't make a reasonable bid.

It's a bit like all our old art and history going from Sotheby's directly to the U.S.A., or Japan !

[kerrensimmonds]

I can't see him selling at that price, anyway.....
and I am sure the School would tell you that it had better things to do with its money than buy back old presentation cups....
Ho Hum!

[Adrian]

Back up for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTIQUE-19thC ... 1463648960

£1295 or make an offer.

Knock the 1 off the front, that's my offer.

[Katharine]

Are we sure that it is CH rather than either of the other Royal Hospitals founded at the same time? I know King Edward's School Witley uses the same crest.

[J.R.]

I might just offer a fiver seing as how the seller ain't going to get what he wants.

Maybe Lovejoy is involved !

[sejintenej]

Are we sure that it is CH rather than either of the other Royal Hospitals founded at the same time? I know King Edward's School Witley uses the same crest.

When you compare it with
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=433&p=134214&hilit ... st#p134214

You will see that the guard on the sword is different. The blowup suggests that the rose might also be different but is insufficient to be certain

[Foureyes]

This was discussed elsewhere on the forum some time ago, but here goes.
The blazon (to use the correct term!) used by King Edward's Witley, referred to by Katherine, is CORRECT and that currently used by C.H. (i.e, identical to K.E.W.) is INCORRECT. The problem lies with the rose.
The correct description for C.H. is that the rose should be argent (i.e., silver, but usually shown as white) with gold seeds and green barbs.Further, the flower should be a "rose of the field" rather than a "Tudor rose" - but I hasten to add that I do not understand quite what that entails.

For afficionadoes, the correct description, as supplied to me by Somerset Herald, is: "Argent a Cross Gules in the first quarter a Sword erect of the last on a Chief Azure a Rose of the Field barbed and seeded proper between two Fleur-de-Lis Or " (College of Arms Grants 117.80).

In other words, the main Cross and the sword are red. The bar across the top is blue, with two gold-coloured Fleur-de-Lis flanking a SILVER/WHITE rose.

C.H. always used to show this correctly - see, for example, the badge on the drum at the head of this page - but it got changed to gold about 15-20 years ago, probably as a result of some innocent misunderstanding by someone who did not realise the significance.

I have pointed this out several times to C.H. whose reply is that it will be changed to the correct rose 'in due course' - which hasn't arrived yet!

David

PS. Before his father corrects me, I should point out that this was originally brought to light by Lieutenant Jonathan Eastburn, Old Blue, the youngest commanding officer in the Royal Navy today and who has many, much more important things to worry about!

[Foureyes]

Further to the above I asked Mr Pushkin if he could shed any further light on the cup and his reply is:

" The front is later engraved with a coat of arms for Christ's Hospital School, Newgate, London.
The base is Hallmarked English silver (925 Standard), London, year 1805 (K), Maker's mark J.E (John Emes).
the other side is plain, we couldn't find the reason why this cup bears this crest."

Another of life's little mysteries!

David

[DavebytheSea]

Thanks David. Yes Jonathan is racing northwards in HMS Ranger for the 100th anniversary of Jutland this week end..